Vocal Voices

Sorry long saga.....

As you all know our boiler went kaput, it overheated and burnt out last weekend. Apparently the reason is Steve installed new radiators with Thermostatic Radiator Valves (TRV's) in every room bar the bathroom which was new. He also fitted a TRV to that one too and although we were happy to have it if possible as it's always burning hot I did query it as I recalled the bathroom plumber saying it shouldn't have one added. Steve assured us it was okay and wouldn't cause any problem. Then we turned on the heating last Friday evening Out came the gas safe engineer who serviced it for us last March and found it in very good condition then, he and the online manual for our model are very clear one radiator MUST be left TRV free to act as a heat release. Hence the boiler's demise.

Here's our dilemma, Steve, unlike Terry and George electrician has been absolutely brilliant and worked like a trouper. He's also done a number of extra jobs, he put together a flat pack wardrobe for the spare room and a few other bits for us. But and it's a big but, he's directly responsible for us now having to pay in excess of £1800 for a new boiler installation, definitely not budgeted for and more than we can really afford. Up to now if anything has gone awry he's been very quick to accept responsibility and we've always come to an amicable resolution. When he was told he just said he's never heard of having to leave one without. Since then the silence has been deafening, so disappointing We've been reluctant to confront him as he was still tiling and we also needed him to first dismantle and on Monday reinstate the cupboard around the boiler, to be honest this last week has been very awkward.

All the advice we've been given says as he's caused the damage he should deduct the cost of the new boiler from his final invoice. Apparently he should have liability insurance to cover things like this. E and I have discussed it and would be happy to add 3 days at his normal day rate, £450 in total, which would more than cover his time doing the complimentary work, but we don't feel we should be liable for any more than this. I have a nasty suspicion things will be very difficult, I'm sure he would have spoken to us if he was willing to accept responsibility. We feel really sad and really don't want things to end on a sour note, but just don't know what else we can do, it's a lot of money and totally not our fault. I hope we're being fair.

Oh Jen, what a huge dilemma. I think you're being very fair.

I know that when we had a boiler and new system fitted at our old house the radiator in the hall was left without a TRV, and the fitter explained why when he came to quote the job, and it's the same here. The small one in the hall here doesn't have one. Now if I know that I'm amazed that Steve doesn't when it's his job to fit these and fit them safely.

I don't know what to suggest, maybe contact Citizen's Advice? Really hope that you can resolve this easily, it's horrible when you're dealing with anything like this. When we had our extension built our builder was brilliant but the less said about electrician he used the better. He actually managed to break the oven door off and I don't even know why he was messing in there. Thankfully it was the old oven so I managed rather than kick up a fuss because it was only a couple of weeks before we were fitting out the kitchen and having a new one. I did tell him about it though and he just shrugged, and he barely spoke after that.

Oh, Jen, that is so disappointing, and costly.

I am wondering if you both could sit down with Steve and tell him what you have just told us and see if it tugs at his heart strings. An agreement is always better than a fight and that is how I would put the problem to him.

However, if he will not come to an agreement to help then you have no choice but to take things further, and you should hint at that being the case without threatening him.

So, gently, gently, first before getting the sledgehammer out.

Good luck.

Oh Jen, this is awkward for you! Clearly though he is in the wrong here, and no way should this be costing you! I agree you should try talking to him about it, but bottom line is if necessary you can withhold the amount from the final settlement, and should do so if you need to He's been great doing you little extra jobs, but that's beside the point really

Good luck xx

Oh berlimey Jen - awkward.

But have to agree that you need to sit down with him and just explain, as you did to us and see what he has to say.

He's coming back to refit the cupboard around the boiler on Monday and will no doubt be presenting his final bill when that's done. We will explain as nicely as possible that as the boiler's demise is a direct result of his work we do expect him to take responsibility. We will also say we really appreciate how good he's been with us so we want to add £450 to what we owe him as compensation for the extra complimentary work he's done (more than the time it actually took him.....we won't say that though) to soften his loss. So instead of him covering the full £1800 his loss is reduced to £1350. We will be saying that's the amount we will be withholding.

We really hope things don't get unpleasant, but we can't afford to back down. As E says however bad we feel for him we honestly can't afford to cover the full cost of his mistake.

Jen, over here electricians and gas fitters have to belong to authorised bodies, is that the case in England? If so, the relevant body will be able to advise how to deal with this. You should not have to bear this cost because of his error, no matter how good he has been.

I think, Jenniren, that Workingman has given you the same advice that I would,
and I suggest that you endeavour to resolve this matter with a frank and business-like
talk with the man. There is no reason why you should be financially penalised because
of his errors. Just try and keep calm, but determined, during your conversation with him.

I wish you luck.

Jen, does he fit boilers for a living or just extend systems? Because anyone can extend an existing system so long as they don't interfere with the gas or the boiler fittings and they don't have to be registered.

You can withhold the amount from the final invoice and there is little he can do about it. Before messing with radiators he should have known that one radiator has to be fitted with manual valves and that they must, at the very least, have minimum flow, or the boiler can be damaged by surge pressure then the valves all shut.

The simple thing is this, if you haven't paid him you have the upper hand. He could go after you in the small claims court, but my experience is that if the reason is justified for withholding and the sum is reasonable, no small claims court will award him a win.

It's not a good situation, these never are. But he's not family and he has damaged your house through doing poor work through a lack of knowledge. If he didn't know he should have asked someone who did. The fact that he is not talking means he knows he's at fault and is trying to make you feel awkward about it.

Have the discussion when you pay the invoice. Be prepared for him to try and emotionally blackmail you and don't do it.

Suff he's not a gas safe engineer so doesn't install central heating, but as you say can add to an existing system with new and additional radiators. He's done all the plumbing such as fitting the new sink in the kitchen. We feel as you say, if he's doing this work he should be aware that one radiator must be left open, this has obviously not happened on previous jobs so he's been very fortunate not to have had this happen before. To be honest we do feel very let down as I did query it and he was adamant it wouldn't be a problem.

We've been paying him as things have progressed so he's already had quite a lot of money for the plastering throughout and fitting the new kitchen. We expect him to present his final bill for all the tiling, skirting etc once he replaces the cupboard around the new boiler tomorrow. I'm quite happy to give him a copy of the boiler invoice so that he can claim on his insurance, but even after deducting that he's still due a good amount of money from us. I appreciate this will cut into his profit, but we feel that shouldn't and doesn't mean we suffer financially for his mistake.

Suff wrote:The simple thing is this, if you haven't paid him you have the upper hand. He could go after you in the small claims court, but my experience is that if the reason is justified for withholding and the sum is reasonable, no small claims court will award him a win.

It's not a good situation, these never are. But he's not family and he has damaged your house through doing poor work through a lack of knowledge. If he didn't know he should have asked someone who did. The fact that he is not talking means he knows he's at fault and is trying to make you feel awkward about it.

Have the discussion when you pay the invoice. Be prepared for him to try and emotionally blackmail you and don't do it.

Exactly our feelings, we didn't actually ask for complimentary extras, he insisted, most of which he did on Friday. We're being very generous with the amount we're willing to pay him for this time, but that's as far as we're prepared to go. It's all a shame as we both hate confrontation and we will be very sorry if we finish on bad terms, but we can't afford to back down.