Taking 'Brexit' out of Brexit for a moment.

[Workingman]

We all know about the divisions over deal, no-deal, Remain, Leave, backstop and so on, so there is no need to go there, but Brexit has indirectly thrown up a lot of other rather worrying things.

When I was in the RAF there was plenty of banter between us all. We were all proud of our own countries, but we also shared the crack during international football and rugby matches. Yes, there were always a few hardcore 'nationalists' but for the most part we got on well. We mirrored the public.

That all looks to be disappearing judging by comments I read in the media. We are not now a 'United' Kingdom, we are not even united within the four kingdoms. We now have region set against region, area against area, supporters of one political persuasion set against supporters of another, family member against family member and so on.

It is true that those things have always been with us, but there is now a nastiness, almost a hatred, to the way they are expressed. The UK is becoming not such a nice place to live and that saddens me.

[cromwell]

There is an awful lot of nastiness around, for certain. Toleration of the viewpoint of others seems to have gone out of the window in many cases.

[TheOstrich]

I shall probably be pilloried on this thread for saying so - but TBH, I think this is a sh*tty little country, and have felt like that for some time now.

Nothing to take pride in whatsoever, from the incompetence of the politicians both local and national, to the soaring rates of crime and drug abuse, from the lack of compassion and care for the homeless and the abused, to the greed and corruption of business, from the rise of uncontrollable social media to the plethora of empty virtue- and faction-signalling.

The nastiness and lack of toleration you see now are only symptoms of a whole host of ills in the fabric of society that have built up over the last, what, 30 years or so since Thatcher.

And unfortunately - it ain't going to get any better …..

[medsec222]

There has been a dramatic decline in good manners and respect for each others points of view over the last few years. Although there are still dedicated MPs, and Frank Field comes to mind, and I am sure there are many more like him, the overall standard and integrity of those who purport to represent us has sunk to an all time low. There would have been an immediate resignation on discovery on 'wrong doing' at one time, but today it is a case of heads down and hope it will all go away.

Social media has a lot to answer for, as keyboard trolls make the most appalling remarks and seemingly get away with it. I agree with Ossie and Cromwell entirely about the nastiness and lack of toleration that is now almost the norm. At one time you could always have a healthy debate whatever your political affiliation but today some of the comments that come from the hard left and the hard right are despicable and I rarely, if ever, discuss my political views with anyone (except perhaps on VV)

[Suff]

For me this has been going on for decades, not just the last 30 years or so. Really since the revolution of the 60's and the degeneration of that revolution into something rather seedy and dark in the 70's. We challenged everything, accepted nothing and expected that people would do it our way regardless of tradition and, in some ways, even common sense.

Today that has been accelerated to the nth degree and has produced the worst kinds of trolls and snowflakes. We a bombarded with so called "reality" shows (not in my world, more UN reality for me), where people are going about their lives defying laws, custom and just about everything. The very last thing these people would recognise are good manners, they don't even have the time between one vodka and the next to think about it.

Personally I think Brexit has lifted back the carpet and shown the horrible beast making that huge bump in the middle of it, it was always there, it just needed a flashpoint.

Back in December, last, I was at a wedding. My niece was talking to me, can't remember what about, when she said "but you are a gentleman". Knocked me back a bit as I don't see myself in that mould where I grew up and the "gentlemen" of my youth. I mentioned it to my SIL and she said "But you are, you always look out for the women, you are always polite and you're always there". And there is my problem. When I grew up that was a given, simply the way life was. Being a Gentleman required quite a bit more and I, sad to say, did not fit the bill in my teens.

Everything in manners, discourse, debate, argument, has descended a level in the UK. I'm not sure I quite agree with the "shitty little country" of Ossie's statement, although I know exactly where that comes from, but I'd say it is sadly diminished and, worst of all, seems to be driven by those who revel in diminishing it even more. Perhaps areas are more prone to the "shitty" attitude, but others certainly are not.

This is not just a UK problem. I have seen it in Youth throughout the EU in multiple countries and I know that it is a growing problem throughout the English speaking world too.

Just to add, the Internet has a lot to blame here too. People had to be a lot more polite when having a "discussion" down the pub. Otherwise you could find yourself outside having to defend your position with your fists.