WE DO NOT DESERVE THIS PLANET.

[Workingman]

We really don't.

Stick with it and watch the second film.... you will throw up.

I was watching the Michael Palin Himalayan thing, Bangladesh, the other night and you could almost smell and taste the shit coming through the screen. It was truly disgusting - 162 million of them in and area 3/4 the size of Britain, and still they breed. And these are not isolated cases, they are all over the globe, and they keep on coming thicker and faster - habitats destroyed so that we can "live", make a few bob, own a phone, use an app, throw away a few times worn T-shirt.

Humanity: the most intelligent and most stupid organism in the Universe.

[cromwell]

That was pretty foul. To put it mildly. To think that kids have to swim in that filth to earn a couple of dollars is appalling.
Most of the plastic waste in the oceans comes from ten rivers; all of them in Africa or Asia. With the population in those parts of the world continuing to soar the problem is only going to get worse.
Population of the Philippines in 1973 was 39 million. By 2019 it was 108 million. In 46 years they added 69 million people.
The figures for Bangladesh in the same period are 67.6 million to 163 million, a rise of 95.4 million. Pakistan went from 63.1 million to 216.6 million; a population increase of 153.5 million in 46 years! It's madness but it just rolls on.

[Workingman]

I am glad that someone gets it, thanks Cromwell.

There are rafts of crap the size of Wales, gyres, in all the oceans. A young lad was rewarded for coming up with a boom to sweep them all up. Unfortunately the boom would need to be hundreds of miles long And if it worked then some countries would have to be found who are willing to accept it, probably for landfill, and it's an expensive operation

On one of those rivers you mention we saw mile after mile of rubbish floating down to the sea. A Dutch engineer came up with a floating conveyor whose leading edge was just under the waterline. The rubbish went up the conveyor and dropped on to another at 90º to it then in to lorries to be taken away - not to be recycled but as more landfill. Nobody was interested.

We destroy pristine environments thousands of miles away to grow apples, potatoes and runner beans we could grow at home. The problem is that we need the land at home for detached houses with gardens, a garage to store old tennis rackets, sewing machines, bikes and boxes of shoes, meanwhile we park three cars on our huge driveways. A growing population needs houses you see.

Meanwhile, back in the corridors of power, we tinker at the edges and pretend that the problem will be solved in 20??.

I now have a young granddaughter under one year old. I fear that she might be one of the last of the line. I certainly would not want to be her when she gets to be my age.

[Suff]

Sorry WM, just not up for watching video's, been running a fever on and off for the last 2 days.

This whole situation is difficult because there is, really, no world police and the UN is totally unacceptable in that role. Which means countries can dump all their crap in the rivers, let it go out to sea, where it goes "somewhere else" and somewhere else is not their problem.

If they were forced to pay for the control and cleanup of this crap they would makes sure it never hits the sea in the first place. However who would you trust with that level of power and what would your sanctions be? We won't buy your goods?

But Asia is much like the excesses seen when the old USSR fell. Absolutely horrific environmental abuses carried out in the name of "security". Nobody to say no.

It isn't a pretty picture, but if we don't fix CO2, then it doesn't really matter because the planet will settle our hash. Permanently.

[cromwell]

This whole situation is difficult because there is, really, no world police and the UN is totally unacceptable in that role. Which means countries can dump all their crap in the rivers, let it go out to sea, where it goes "somewhere else" and somewhere else is not their problem.

I agree; I wouldn't trust the UN. Look at how the WHO has performed (or not performed) during Covid.
The sort of people who want world authority are the sort of people you wouldn't want to have it.

Part of the problem is that the majority of plastic chuckers are poor countries. What can you do to them to punish them, and should you be punishing a poor country anyway?

Maybe much better to properly address recycling. I think WM posted on here ages since that plastic can be turned back into oil, but that it is expensive. Well, maybe it is time to fund that expense. Set up plastic recycling centres in poor countries. Poor people get paid for recycling and 10,000 tons of crap doesn't get thrown into the river.

[Suff]

Plastic recycling in Sweden works. Bottles at the supermarket carry a deposit, you put the bottl into a machine, it scans the barcode and adds the deposit to a ticket you can use to buy goods. If people are poor, they will scrimp every penny of that.

Also in hugely overpopulated countries the government's could buy plastic trash from people. If breadline people are going to get cash for trash, they will hoover it all up.

The problem is that most of these countries don't give a crap.

[cromwell]

Plastic recycling in Sweden works. Bottles at the supermarket carry a deposit, you put the bottl into a machine, it scans the barcode and adds the deposit to a ticket you can use to buy goods. If people are poor, they will scrimp every penny of that.

Also in hugely overpopulated countries the government's could buy plastic trash from people. If breadline people are going to get cash for trash, they will hoover it all up.

The problem is that most of these countries don't give a crap.

Maybe it's time that they were made to care then. No more foreign aid until they make a start.

[Workingman]

Tesco recently announced that it will be taking back and recycling soft plastic pouches, bread bags etc. It is something other supermarkets have been doing for a while, but it's good PR. Unfortunately, and like most things, it is tinkering at the edges.

We are also going to get a law making things a lot easier to be repaired rather than thrown.

These things can all work, but nobody is looking at why we need so much packaging in the first place or what alternatives there are to plastic when packaging is truly needed.

And nobody with any power, anywhere, is looking at population and the economy. They are a universal no-no even though most of us, deep down, know that they are the twin problems. We either address them or "mum" will deliver her solutions and we will not like them.

If you think that we are going through a deadly pandemic at the moment wait until the real ones come along. We have had the shot across the bows... a few of them.

[Suff]

Lights are on but nobody is home.