Psyops; Project Fear mk2

[Workingman]

With the numbers going the way they have been for the past month - a plateauing of sorts according to the government's dashboard - why all the rush?

And how is anyone without a supercomputer going to make sense of a rolling programme of 100m + tests per week if we all take part? Ah, we won't all take part though, and many tests will not be done correctly at home, that will make the results patchy, at best, and virtually irrelevant at worst.

I also note another three word something - Covid status certificates - instead of vaccine passports. That's sure to make us all sign up.

The seven day average for cases for the past five weeks are fairly flat at around 3500 p/d. Death on the other hand are averaging about 100 per day and falling. They, along with the ONS (10s of 1000s of random volunteers) results have worked good enough thus far, just keep on monitoring.

[cromwell]

How many more lies can actually be told here? How many more evasions, how much more goalpost shifting?

Now SAGE are saying that if we lift restrictions there will be a resurgence of Covid because "the vaccines aren't good enough". Way to go lads, that'll encourage people to have the jab! Idiots. Every indication is that the vaccine has worked very well indeed.

I want my life back, I'm sick of listening to the lies of these barstewards and I don't think I'm the only one.

At least Johnson is being called on his U-turns and evasions now.

The Spectator is a right winf magazine and Fraser Nelson is generally supportive of the Conservative party. When he starts going through Johnson's answers showing how they don't match up to the questions, how they are evading them, then you know Boris is losing support. Article link below - you show be able to read it as a one of two free articles as a guest.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/joh ... -s-showing

One thing that does baffle me is the Labour "opposition". Where are they?

[Workingman]

People are conflating international travel with domestic issues.

For decades we have had international travel cards for such things as yellow fever, polio, typhoid and even smallpox when it was active. If other countries want UK travellers to show proof of Covid vaccination before they let us in then that is what we have to do. If, whilst we are away, a country goes from green to red and we have to quarantine on our return, so be it - it was a chance we took.

Those things are a world away from gaining access to places in the UK, as Nelson points out. Some of his links are worth a read. My problem is not so much about carrying proof of vaccination - one dose or two - or of having a relevant negative test, it there is such a thing. It is about how it will all work.

If it's an app then many of us either do not want one or we lack the required device. If it is to be a paper certificate then they will be easy to fake. As for tests, they can be out of date just a few days after they are done so there would need to be a rolling programme.... for everyone!

The vaccine does not make you immune, but it does reduce your risk. It also does not prevent you transmitting Covid if you do catch it. Your viral load should be less so there is less likelihood, but not zero. It is not a silver bullet but it is doing a damned good job. We might, just might, have to start living with this. By mid July all over 16s who want / need one should have had a first dose.... only then can we have meaningful Covid status certification, imo.

[Suff]

Agree testing is virtually useless.

However vaccines are not useless at reducing/stopping transmission. If, for instance, a room full of people have been vaccinated and one had the virus, that person is up to 75% less likely to transmit it, the others are up to 90% less likely to catch it and 100% less likely to go into ICU.

In terms of Risk that is about a 90% risk reduction or illness and 100% reduction in serious illness. In the very worst case those vaccinated would run about a 70% chance of catching it and a 100% chance that they would _not_ go into ICU.

That can't be ignored and it makes an entirely different picture. But nobody is telling that story.

As for certification? That's the issue isn't it. I won't use an app so I won't be allowed to go to pub's restaurants etc. OK with that. If 75% of the UK were also OK with that the apps would be ditched forthwith. Because the app is supposed to get the economy moving again. If people refuse to use it the economy doesn't get moving again and they have to stop and think again.

I don't expect most people to even think of that before getting the app and getting themselves tracked.

[cromwell]

The American government have just said that they are NOT introducing vaccine passport, citing the freedom and rights of Americans.
Puts our government to shame.
Eta - a Federal VP. This might mean a state could have them if it wanted to.