Looks like its NO

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Re: Looks like its NO

Postby Workingman » 19 Sep 2014, 23:01

Can I just say this, Shaz? A gathering in a square of a few hundred hot-heads does not represent a country of 5m+.

There were always going to be hot-spots, but they do not mean the country is falling apart. Give it a day or two to settle down.
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Re: Looks like its NO

Postby Kaz » 20 Sep 2014, 07:15

Yes, what Frank said! (((((x)))))
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Re: Looks like its NO

Postby Diflower » 20 Sep 2014, 08:13

Sometimes more coverage can seem to fuel more of the same, so maybe it's not a bad thing?
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Re: Looks like its NO

Postby Suff » 20 Sep 2014, 08:51

I went to bed early and got up at 04:30 UK time. It was enough for me to see some of the key results and to see how it had all gone.

I had a meeting at 07:30 UK time followed by a very senior Steering meeting I was presenting for another manager an hour later. There was no way I was turning up like a half shut knife for that meeting.

I wasn't really surprised. Also I wasn't overly disappointed either. You might wonder, when I've been so strongly for the case for Scotland to leave, that I'm not either surprised or disappointed.

Surprised? Well it was always going to go down to the undecided and they were always going to go with what they saw as their personal best interests rather than the interests of the country as a whole. I find it so interesting that people who live in a democracy, which by it's very nature means that the individual gives up something of themselves (voluntarily), to gain the benefits of that Democracy, don't understand that sometimes you have to give a little bit more for a while to benefit that very democracy. But, that's the nature of those who have grown up and prospered in a stable democracy; complacency.

Disappointed? I would have been if it were not for bumbler Brown and the Three Stooges. Who came haring up to Scotland, were shanghaied by Brown and worshiped at the Alter of false hope and broken promises. Coming out with statements and paper promises that they could not and would not deliver.

OK it's Saturday Mr Cameron. My foot is tapping, my clock is ticking. What got better? Oh; nothing. Quell surprise! Not only is it not getting better but with every word spoken it gets worse. First Cameron comes out and states that Scots will get what he wanted but only when he has finished locking them out of anything in the UK that does not directly impact them. I wonder how long it will take the Scots to realise that when you are in a union of nations and one nation is 8 times your size, indirect impacts from decisions in that nation can completely and totally turn your country upside down.

Then we get the Tory MP's vowing that they'll never support it and Labour MP's running around panicking because they're going to lose their majority in Westminster even if the Scots do STAY. Cameron, much to my surprise, has been guilty of the most masterful piece of strategy. Well if you think of it in English politics. He keeps Scottish Oil revenues, pushes Scotland out of decisions on the overall budget, and raises questions such as: Can there ever be another Scots PM and can there ever be another Scots finance minister.

Does that sound like either settled or a good deal for Scotland?

So I sit here, listening and watching and thinking. The more I do that, the more I smile. Did they forget that there is an election next year? In their rush to "save Scotland"? Did they forget, in their fine speeches, that they would have to deliver before May next year? Salmond did not. In his One Scotland speech he reminded them that they had to have the bill in it's second reading by the end of March next year. Which would mean derailing almost all current parliamentary bills and activities in order to do that. Because after the first reading and vote it has to go to the Lords, then come back for it's second reading. When Cameron tacked on the English devolution, he guaranteed that this would not happen.

OK Mr Cameron, you only had one seat to lose. Brown, on the other hand, may not keep his seat at all if things go the way I think they will.

So why am I smiling? Well I'm half Scottish and half English and I love both my countries, even if I am often seriously irritated by the English view of the world. I didn't want England ruling Scotland any more and I didn't want Labour to win the next election. I may not have managed one but I might just have managed the other.

However, when Scots realise just how badly they have been lied to, for the short term gain of one single vote, they are going to be seriously, seriously pissed. In fact, Maggie Thatcher may finally have been forgiven in some way, or at least pushed down the tree of offenses.

Salmond was quite right about "for now". If you win a vote on lies and deceit, don't expect that the people themselves will just lie down and take it. It is highly likely that the SNP vote balance in Westminster just changed. Then there is another election in 2016 in the Scottish Parliament. Look back. What has Salmond done for anyone to reproach him? He did what he promised and he worked exceedingly hard for it and when it did not happen, again, as promised, he stood down.

I don't expect the general run of the mill Scot to have thought about all of this yet. I was thinking about it before the vote, most Scots were just caught up in the moment. When the dust clears and the beer is out of the system (whether in celebration or smothering disappointment), Scots are going to start looking and listening.

Scots are slow to anger and implacable when they are. 17 years we have had no more than one Tory MP with no change in sight. Labour might want to think long and hard about that before they start playing games in Westminster.

I'll open another thread with my some more detail.
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand Binary and those who do not.
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