Nicola Sturgeon again

[medsec222]

This time she argues a second referendum is an option, as the UK Scotland voted to remain in is drastically changing. This despite the fact that a referendum on the EU was clearly in the Conservative manifesto. Apparently Mrs Stugeon wants Scotland to remain within the EU and thus keep its independence. Not sure of the logic behind this.

[Suff]

There is 0 logic in it. Except for the fact that it gives Scotland a seat at the table. Never mind that the seat will just be a little one, it's more than they have with the EU.

I've never understood their position and, I see, 38% of the Scots agree with me...

[medsec222]

That means 62% of Scots don't

[Kaz]

More front than Brighton, that one! There was a referendum, Scotland chose to stay in the UK, end of. Those of us who wished to remain in Europe have had to take a hard lesson, and abide by the democratic process that means Brexit. The Scots must do the same. Democracy means abiding by the will of the people, not keep having more referenda until you get the result you want

[cromwell]

More front than Brighton, that one!

Lol!

She's so annoying that I think many people would say "Yes! Let Scotland become independent!" just to get her off the TV screen because my God she's on every day, singing the same tune.

[Workingman]

Those of us who wished to remain in Europe have had to take a hard lesson, and abide by the democratic process that means Brexit. The Scots must do the same. Democracy means abiding by the will of the people, not keep having more referenda until you get the result you want

And many of us who wanted to remain now want our negotiators to get the best for the UK once Brexit happens.

Sturgeon needs for it to be tattooed in reverse on her forehead so that when she looks in the mirror she sees that the EU referendum was for the whole of the UK. Scotland is part of the UK, they held a referendum on it, and the UK voted to leave.

Mrs May: "Come in Nicola, you do not need to sit, this will not take long. You are not getting another referendum, and if you do not stop blathering on about I will do away with your little parish council. Goodbye."

[Suff]

If she had an overall majority in her government, she would be acting and not talking.

Good point to remember is that her standing at home is not as good as she woud have us believe.

It makes understanding her bluster easier. She is trying to convince her Scots opposition.

[Workingman]

Acting on doing what exactly?

Acting on holding referendums every Tuesday and Thursday. Go ahead, dear, but without the backing of the UK they will be worth nothing.

Acting on making a Unilateral Declaration of Independence. I am not sure that she could carry the Scottish people with her on that one.

Acting on getting a UKwide referendum on Scottish Independence. That might be a good one. The rest of the UK would almost certainly help to kick her and Alex out of the UK.

But then they would be out of the EU as well, and Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles might then want independence from Scotland. If that happened Scotland would lose most of its oil and gas as well as some major fishing grounds.

[TheOstrich]

If she had an overall majority in her government, she would be acting and not talking.
Good point to remember is that her standing at home is not as good as she woud have us believe.
It makes understanding her bluster easier. She is trying to convince her Scots opposition.

Do you sense she's losing a bit of goodwill north of the border, Suff? She certainly is coming across as a right pain in the neck down here ......

I don't want to re-start having to ban Scottish produce from the house again. It's bad enough at the moment rooting through the "country of origin" on the packaging in Asda to ensure our strawberries are from the UK and not Holland. At least the batch of Scottish strawberries they had in at the tail end of last week had the Cross of St Andrew prominently emblazoned on the front .....

[Suff]

You'd have to understand Scottish politics both before and after the Independence referendum.

Scotland has, historically, been a combination of very heavy Industry (think Midlands) and Farming with a large chunk of finance, tourism and alcohol manufacture thrown in. Most of which concentrated in the lowlands and so densely packed that the community borders overflowed each other.

When Maggie won in 79 she carried 22 Scots MP's. By the time she and Major had finished, the Tories never had more than one Westminster seat in Scotland again.

The Lib Dems mainly filled the Gap with Labour slowly taking over throughout the years. So we have this Labour/Lib Dem dominated country.

Then we got the regional assemblies. The first one was a Labour victory. The second one was a Lab Lib pact and the third one was a SNP minority government. All the while SNP in Westminster is building very slowly. Blair did the regional assemblies, I think, because he thought this would defuse the problem of nationalism. In fact, in Scotland, it gave the SNP exactly what it needed. A forum not tainted by the English block vote which could allow the Scots to register their dissatisfaction at the polls and then all the tools of government to use it.

So we get to a majority SNP government and they are able to pass a Scottish bill, locally, which calls for a Referendum.

And they lose.

They then suddenly understand that not everyone voted for them because they wanted to leave the UK but because they wanted to break the mould of Lab/Lib/Cons control.

They then get the stunning victory which is a negation of the traditional parties in Westminster(on which they party all night).

Followed by the Scottish elections and she's back in a minority government again (Scots didn't back her, as she believed they would, at home), and she's facing Ruth Davidson as a very competent leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party, as the largest opposition party. Now there's one in the eye for all of them. The SNP at local council level and at Scottish government level has been tarred with the Austerity brush every bit as much as the Conservative government in Westminster. But you won't hear that at the Westminster debates. Why would you? That's all local Scottish stuff and nothing to do with them.....

Then we come to the EU referendum and 38% of the voters vote to leave. That has got to be the most terrifying statistic that Sturgeon has ever seen. It means that if she holds a referendum to leave the UK, solely on the grounds that Scotland is going to join the EU, she's going to have 38% of the electorate against her from the start line and she has to be absolutely cast iron certain that 12% of the others want to leave the UK.

I don't think that is a bet she wants to make.

Why is she making all this noise, doing the rounds, rushing to Brussels? She needs an excuse. The more Brussels says NO you're going with the UK and the more the UK says, we're out get with the programme, the more she builds up a picture that says "I didn't want to do this but I have no choice. I have to give you the chance to say whether you want to stay in the EU or not and that means leaving the UK. If you say no then I'll follow through with your instructions. If you say yes, then I'll follow through with that too. Because we understood your No vote in the Independence referendum to be a wish to stay in the EU equally as much as wanting to stay in the UK".

In this case she is always the winner because she did not call the vote for "her" reasons, she called the vote for the people because they have been betrayed by the Tories and they need to have a chance to fix the problem, if they want to.

That is what I believe is going on right now. A way to get what she wants without having to stand down if she fails.... Machiavelli has nothing on Scottish politics.