Manchester bombing

[Kaz]

I'd be worried too, but hope I would still go. I understand people not wanting to though. I know I bang on about this a bit, but I did live and work in London through the IRA bombings, we had bomb scare after bomb scare at my workplace, but what if we'd all stayed at home? It's what they want, peope being so scaref that they change their behaviour

[cromwell]

Morrissey calls out Damp Eyed Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester.

"Manchester mayor Andy Burnham says the attack is the work of an ‘extremist’. An extreme what? An extreme rabbit?”

He also referred to the massive anger of ordinary people towards this attack; an anger that is deliberately not being shown on the TV. I suppose you can see why; you don't want idiots attacking mosques or taxi drivers. But this hippy dippy "we'll beat hate with love" will not last if there are more attacks soon.

[Suff]

Very true Kaz, but it depends on what your beliefs are. In WWII the US interned everyone of Japanese ethnicity including the parents of American Japanese servicemen fighting in the war. At the time, after one world war and a second on the way where the country was actually attacked, this was seen by the people in general as a good sensible move to protect the whole of the US from 5th columns. The Executive Order was upheld by the supreme court in 1944.

Move forward 36 years and attitudes had changed due to a complete lack of real threat to the country and the cessation of real hostilities via the ending of Vietnam. With the change in attitudes due to people growing up without war, an investigation was made into the order. 44 years after the supreme court upheld that order, it was overturned and $1.6bn was paid out on compensation.

Roll forward to today and the attitudes and the laws which back them, now mean that in order to deal with terrorists we have to remove the freedoms of everyone because it is politically inexpedient to remove it only from those who are a real and present threat (see the reaction to President Trump's Executive orders on movement of people from countries which are a threat).

In the end the "civil liberties" and "civil rights" movements are more likely to usher in a police state than any other driver.

Today we are being unfair to everyone to ensure that we are not unfair to a very small slice of the UK population.

Some day that will change. It can be evolution or it can be revolution. The way the "civil rights" groups are going it's more likely to be revolution than evolution and it's always the masses who get hurt in revolutions.

My behaviour is to be open and friendly to everyone until they prove not to be worthy of that friendship or openness. Once they have proved, by their own actions, to be unworthy of that friendship then the hand of friendship is removed. We have two dogs, if they bit me when feeding them, they would not be fed.

So, in order to deal with this problem I would not have to change my behaviour or my beliefs. I would have to apply them. Any community which overrides UK law and acts without the law, such as demanding that Sharia Law is in place in areas of the UK, should be dealt with exactly the way we deal with gypsies who create illegal sites.

We have whole communities which have not only bitten the hand that feeds them but savaged the legs and body too. Not only do I not see that they should be treated better than my dogs, who I love, but I hold them, humans, to a much higher standard. Apparently the Government and the pressure groups of the UK do not.

My heart bleeds for those swept up in the latest atrocity in the UK. As much for the damage done as because of the fact that it has been allowed by inaction and political correctness.

I fight for the rights of the many, not for the rights of the few over the many. Everyone is entitled to a fair chance at a fair life. Until they prove they are not. That is my belief and that is how I behave.

[cromwell]

I couldn't get to sleep for hours last night; I was so upset by all this.

[AliasAggers]

I couldn't get to sleep for hours last night; I was so upset by all this.

It certainly is upsetting, Cromwell. The fact that there were so many youngsters involved certainly
upset me, too.

[Kaz]

I saw the Morrisey article Cromwell, to be honest it really annoyed me. The man is a complete tit!

Suff, that's the US? What does WWII internment have to do with the current situation? Are you suggesting we intern Muslims, because I saw Muslim taxi drivers giving people free lifts, I have seen numerous condemnations of the atrocity by Muslim community leaders

[TheOstrich]

I have seen numerous condemnations of the atrocity by Muslim community leaders

Sorry Kaz, I no longer believe those condemnations are sincere. I do not trust them. They are as much a kneejerk reaction to the bombing as Andy Burnham's "I Love Manchester" fest. Neither of them do anything to help us beat these terrorists.

The bomber frequented a mosque in the Didsbury area, I have seen it reported. The Imam there used a Friday prayer session to condemn the teachings of ISIS. The bomber took exception to this, quite publically apparently, ("he showed me a face of hate"), and moved to another mosque in Manchester where they preached a more radical line.

1. Did the first Imam report the bomber to the authorities? If not, why not?
2. Is the other mosque in Manchester still operating? If so, why has it not been closed?
3. The bomber was well known locally for fervent and public street-praying, and displaying foreign flags. Did the community report him. If not, why not?

My view is that the authorities are too tolerant of the Moslem community in our midst. They should make this community integrate and accept British values, or leave - no ifs, no buts.

And a couple of telling questions for the security services whilst we're at it:

4. The bomber flew out to Libya and then returned. If he was known to the security services, why was he not apprehended and interred on his return to Manchester Airport?
5. The bomber's family have been reported as militants, (although it is now being said that they were concerned about their son's radicalisation). They (certainly the mother, it has also been reported) left the country late 2016 leaving their two sons here. Did that not raise huge questions with the security services?

I think we need some answers to the above.

Like you, Kaz, both Mrs O and I worked in Birmingham during the IRA bombings. We can both relate stories about bombings in the city. And yes, like you, we carried on, and did our bit. But at the same time, I feel nothing but anger and contempt for terrorists and apologists for terrorists, whatever ideology they purport to represent. And I now want the authorities to get a grip and act.

[Kaz]

But at the same time, I feel nothing but anger and contempt for terrorists and apologists for terrorists, whatever ideology they purport to represent. And I now want the authorities to get a grip and act.

On that we can certainly agree!!!!

[AliasAggers]

My view is that the authorities are too tolerant of the Moslem community in our midst.
They should make this community integrate and accept British values, or leave - no ifs, no buts.
.

Well put, Ostrich.
I quite agree. No ifs or buts.

[miasmum]

I am not for one minute agreeing with what the IRA did, but the truck bomb detonated in Manchester in 1996 was the biggest bomb to explode in mainland Britain, how many people were killed? NONE because at least the IRA had the decency to give us warnings, 90 mins in that case.