Liars, cheats and lawbreakers.

[cromwell]

The problem I have with it is this Kaz.

As I have pointed out many times on VV,(and as confirmed by junior minister Steve Baker the other day) we have a problem with the referendum. The people vote to leave, the establishment have no intention of leaving the EU or if they do, want to stay as tied to it as they can.

From day one they have been determined to ignore the referendum result if they can, and to dilute it as far as they can if not.

So we have had scare stories like "Russian agents used Facebook" to influence the result.
Vote Leave lied. (And Remain told the truth, yeah?).
Vote Leave broke the law. There have been multiple allegations that so did Remain, but the Electoral commission has refused to investigate them.
We need a second vote.

We have had the result legally challenged from the rich and powerful.
And now it transpires that the Brexit department headed by David Davis was just window dressing. Theresa May's office has been negotiating with the EU behind Davis' back.

I know where the liars and cheats are - in No 10 Downing Street.

[Kaz]

It's all such an awful mess xx

[cromwell]

I don't think anyone can argue with that. x

[medsec222]

Absolutely spot on Cromwell. I agree with everything you say. I think the political elite were in a state of shock with the result of the referendum - they certainly did not expect a vote to leave. They have done everything in their power since then to derail and undermine the process of leaving. The press has been rather unkind to David Davis by suggesting he had never put the work in as Brexit Secretary. We now find out he has been undermined over a fairly long period of time by Mrs May and a senior Whitehall official. David Davis has brought this out into the open by doing the honourable thing and resigning.

[Suff]

It's all irrelevant.

After A50 was triggered we entered a 2 year window in which we were to negotiate the exit of the UK from the EU.

We have no Veto
We have no Vote on what the other 27 want to do.
We have only one choice if we don't like what they want. Walk away. The only other choice is to attempt to hold the UK in the EU whilst we argue about it. But it takes a unanimous decision by the other 27 and we would have to ask kindly. Just like Cameron did in 2016.

Should we have an attack of conscience and decide to re-enter the EU, we will have to accept every single term they want us to accept, without question or veto.

There is no other option. There is no second referendum and withdraw, there is no provision for it in A50 as the assumption was that any state that got to the point of triggering A50 was so sure of what it wanted that exit was the only option.

This, of course, does not mean that A50 can't be rescinded if we have a second referendum and go begging cap in hand. Of course the EU could decide to rescind the triggering of A50. However anyone who thinks that this would be a 0 cost option is kidding themselves.

All this rubbish about Vote leave breaking the law, about a second referendum, about staying in the EU? It is all rubbish. If Vote Leave's electoral activities could have been deemed to have polluted the referendum result to the point where it was questionable, this could (and would) have come out in the nearly 9 months following the result and the triggering of A50.

Had there been any and I do mean ANY viable way of challenging the result, it would have been tried in that time. As Cromwell says, big business and big money wanted the result changed. It would have happened in that time. Therefore all this noise about the EC and Vote Leave is just that. Noise.

Liars, cheat and lawbreakers? That's all of them on both sides. One determined to leave and one determined to stay. No matter the cost.

What we have now is a decision to leave, no matter the cost and a PM determined to stay, no matter the cost and in whatever way possible, after having committed in speeches, white papers, election manifesto and on every forum the country allows.

The only things missing from the whole debacle were Honesty and Integrity. From both sides.

It is time to move on but all we hear is more of the same.

It would be rather humorous for the UK to become a Colony of the EU because we can't make our minds up to be a country and all the responsibilities that go with it....