Vocal Voices

... I think it has to be said that Cameron has achieved a deal that will persuade most undecided UK voters to remain in the EU. And he should be congratulated on that, even though, for all their bluster, the EU countries realised at the end of the day that if they didn't give Cameron something workable, we would be voting out, and as the Estonian president wryly but correctly put it, then the EU would be the loser.

There are roughly 25% of voters in the UK who would vote to stay in whatever Cameron came home with, and a similar 25% (including myself) who would vote to leave no matter what deal was struck. But the remaining 50%, who have no firm convictions or strong leanings either way, will inevitably vote for the status quo now.

So, barring a massive revolt in the polling booths, it appears we will remain in this wretched super-state organisation as the "curmudgeonly off-islanders", floating in the sea to the west of the continent, viewed with tetchiness by the Europeans, marginalised in both outlook and influence. A sad day when we could be striking out on a fresh voyage of independance.

In other words, the worst of both worlds .... and let's face it, basically nothing has - or will - change.

Just my 2 pence (not cents) worth. I'm sure quite a few of you will disagree, though .......

I think you are probably right!

I suppose that, to those of us who are getting on in years,
it won't much matter how the voting goes.

It's the younger generations who should be the most concerned,
but they will look at things in a different light, no doubt.

We will just have to wait and see.
It will be interesting to see how the campaigning goes.

As one who was inclined to vote to stay in I am not so sure.

Cameron did not ask for much and has only got bits of what was asked for, but he has muddied the waters. From this day forth the UK will be on the periphery even more than we were before, and our every move will be glanced at sideways.

Poll of polls show the 'in' and 'out' camps running neck-and-neck, with about 20% undecided, and I get a feeling that most of them will be in the 'out' camp come any referendum.

Unfortunately Cameron has got nothing. Nothing that will last anyway, as he only "hopes" that what he has agreed will be written into a Treaty. What has been agreed this week can be un-agreed pretty easily.

On the things that matter, the invasion of Europe by illegal immigrants, gaining control of our own borders, reform of the Common Agricultural Policy (which accounts for 30% of the EU budget) and on UK law being above EU law, he didn't even bother to ask, because he knew what the answer would be!

Now I suppose the propaganda will start with the BBC well to the fore.

Now it will all start 24/7
On the news channel
Till we are sick to death of it all

Saundra, I am already sick of it.

Cameron is supposed to have come back with a 'deal' to save us - to change the EU - yet all his supporters can do is talk down the 'Out' campaign. All we hear is 'a step into the dark' and 'bilateral negotiations on trade' and 'worse off out than in'.

If the 'deal' is so bloody brilliant then talk it up, FCOL!

The problem is that it isn't great, and it will not wash. All that Cameron has really done is to cement in the minds of European politicians that if the UK does not get 'special' consideration it will sulk; as if they did not already know. So, they will work around all that and we will have no say in things. Cameron, smart operator, I think not.

Workingman wrote: with about 20% undecided,

This is me.

Politics is a taboo topic in this house, each of the three of us sing from a different hymn sheet, although I think I am probably the fence sitter and peace keeper. News on telly is scary, prone to 'heated debate', so the bits I hear about are generally online or on the radio in the day.

Jen is for staying in, as a young person any change will affect her future and she is a pretty politically minded young woman. Tom is for leaving, of course. I thought that would be the way forward personally but then when I hear J talking about it, her words - for her - make sense to me.

It's a struggle to know what to do for the best.

Gal wrote:
This is me.

Politics is a taboo topic in this house, each of the three of us sing from a different hymn sheet, although I think I am probably the fence sitter and peace keeper. News on telly is scary, prone to 'heated debate', so the bits I hear about are generally online or on the radio in the day.

Jen is for staying in, as a young person any change will affect her future and she is a pretty politically minded young woman. Tom is for leaving, of course. I thought that would be the way forward personally but then when I hear J talking about it, her words - for her - make sense to me.

It's a struggle to know what to do for the best.

You should invite me up next week for the 6 o'clock News, Gal, then you would be able to hear the ranting in stereo!

Mind you, Mrs O says I've calmed down a lot recently. Personally, I blame the chronic laryngitis ......

Seriously, though, it is an important moment for everyone's future, and yes, it is a dilemma. Although I'm a confirmed "outer" like your T, it's J's generation that will have to live with the consequences, so perhaps her say is more important than us oldsters ..... just sayin'
Ossie

It is Gal - the three of us here have similar (fairly left-wing) political views and are leaning towards staying (or should I say remaining ) at the moment. Both of Mick's brothers however, are pretty right-wing in their views and are all for leaving, so we try to stay off politics in extended family gatherings

Ossie!