Vocal Voices

They say is a dish best served cold.

Murdoch and the Sun are now pushing Leave and pushing it hard. Not enough days left to dismantle that kind of push. Fantastic timing and they must be revelling in the panic in #10 right now.

A point, if I remember correctly, the Sun has backed the election winner for the last 5 elections. I believe....

I'm sure that Cameron and Watson are going to remember every single moment at which Murdoch was humiliated and dragged through the mire by the MP's. As I'm sure that Murdoch will take every single ounce of pleasure at breaking down the little power palaces of fear and doubt created by the Remain campaign in this referendum...

All I've got to say is "Go Rupert".

I'm going to enjoy the next 9 days.

I am going to break my silence, not for an argument, but because I agree. The timing, and the headline, are what the Sun does well.

As for 'my' side: The end of political civilization, Tusk, really; European court backs UK curbs on child benefit rights, how convenient that is, we have always been allowed to do it; Osborne's "Brexit for the rich"; And resurrecting Major, Blair and Brown - the inept, hated and disliked - baffles me.

If these things are the best debate topics either side can came up with in one of the most important 'democratic' decisions in our history I give up.

I think Brexit will win, but I think we will regret it, hugely! That's all I wish to say on the matter, as like Frank I give up!!

The last 7 days have been very, very interesting, not least the emerging complete disconnect between Labour and its supporters.

Politicians need to realise that they should reflect the will of the people, not the people genuflect to the will of the politicians. That's one lesson very much coming home to roost.

If the EU were serious about keeping us in, then it needs - quickly - to make a binding commitment to curb EU immigration into this country. And I would want to hear that from the lips of Merkel and Hollande - it's entirely up to them now. Tusk and Junker's threats will only harden the Brexit vote.

Did the famous "vow" swing the Scottish referendum at the last moment? What is the thinking on that. If we now had the equivalent from Europe over immigration, would it succeed in swaying voters to Remain?

Kaz wrote:I think Brexit will win, but I think we will regret it, hugely!

I certainly hope Brexit does win, but I don't think we will regret it. I'm sure there is still enough
of the good old bulldog breed in this country to manage quite well without the E.U., thank you.

Workingman wrote:If these things are the best debate topics either side can came up with in one of the most important 'democratic' decisions in our history I give up.

We are in total and complete agreement on that. I would have loved a real and honest debate where the realities were openly discussed.

But that has always been the problem. Nobody on the IN side (Brussels as well as the UK), wants to tell the truth. OK the leave side may be being optimistic to the point of childlike naivety, but they are being a damned sight less disingenuous than the Remain side.

There are some extremely good reasons to stay. But they will never be debated in this horribly toxic atmosphere. So nobody can really compare the real reasons for leaving with the large and present reasons for staying; then make a fair and honest valued decision based on weighing the downsides against the benefits.

Kaz wrote:I think Brexit will win, but I think we will regret it, hugely!

You may be right Kaz, that many people may regret the decision. However I, who will be quite badly impacted by it; much more than anyone except those of us who have made our main home outside of the UK, will not.

I was sitting next to two of the organisers of the Scottish Football team's supporters the last time I flew back. They told me that the number of people they know who absolutely bitterly regret having voted NO in the Scottish Referendum, outnumber the % difference between the two votes.

I'd rather the people voted for a positive step into a new world of opportunity than slunk in fear of the consequences of leaving the security blanket, no matter the cost of that security blanket.

I've said this before but I find it's useful to say again. Those who lived in the Communists regime of the USSR totally believed that the price of that regime and it's harshness was worth the price paid. Why? Because they had been fed a diet of boogyman (Fear Uncertainly and Doubt), for more than 50 years.

Who was the manifestation of that fear?

We were. Those horrible people who had no morals and were just waiting to overrun them and make their lives intolerable.

Beware the people who are trying to scare you into doing what they want. They ALWAYS have something to hide and the bigger the scare, the bigger the thing they want to hide.

Ossie wrote:Did the famous "vow" swing the Scottish referendum at the last moment? What is the thinking on that. If we now had the equivalent from Europe over immigration, would it succeed in swaying voters to Remain?

Not sure about the 'vow' in Scotland, but in the EU referendum the immigration question is lost as far as Remain is concerned. We have seen too many incidences of failure to deal with the problem for there to be any argument.

Hordes of illegal immigrants or bogus asylum seekers are gaining entry into the EU and little, if nothing, is being done to stop them. The EU has capitulated on this issue.

Suff wrote:There are some extremely good reasons to stay. But they will never be debated in this horribly toxic atmosphere. So nobody can really compare the real reasons for leaving with the large and present reasons for staying; then make a fair and honest valued decision based on weighing the downsides against the benefits.

Oh, how true that is. Both sides have very good arguments, if only they had put them across, but they didn't, they slagged each other off so their arguments are overshadowed by the media, mainly the social media.

Joe says 'Leave' and we can have bent cucumbers. Sarah says 'Stay' because her hols in Ibiza will be cheaper. Both are right, and so damned wrong.

I think that anyone who believes that leaving the EU will catapult the UK back into a world of Sunday roasts, 2.4 children families, a great education system, and new hospitals is believing the Brexit spin quite frankly All it will do is put us totally at the mercy of a government who care nothing for the ordinary people of this country.

Suff where you see a positive jump to new opportunities, I see a leap in the dark, and so do many others, particularly those involved in law and finance.