Vocal Voices

I see from Sturgeon's latest utterances, that she is relying on the EU vote to achieve independence.

The part where she talks about "denying the EU citizens in our country a vote" is key. Scotland, in it's fit of "fairness", allowed EU citiziens to vote in it's Independence referendum. Almost certainly ensuring a NO vote from all of them because the EU insisted that it would force Scotland out and they would have to apply again.

Now it's all reversed. If Scotland is able to have a referendum in the next 6 months, the EU are almost certainly going to reverse that decision which, as they will see it, will be one in the eye for the UK who have left.

In this scenario, the EU citizens in Scotland will almost certainly all vote Yes.

This works for me. Because the EU is now going to start coming under challenges more and more. The UK was a massive bulwark against the socialist ambitions of the more socialist states. Now the UK is gone those smaller countries it championed (none of whom EVER backed the UK when the chips were really down), are going to feel the pressure more and more. Sweden Democrats are going to soar in membership now that one country has finally left.

It would amuse me no end to see Scotland out of the UK and tied to a dying EU from which they had no recourse but to exit from 10 years later.

That would give me every single thing I aspire to.

However, the EU is a huge beast and it's death throes will be long and painful. It will fight, just as the USSR did. But unless it chooses to reform into a fully democratic federal government, I can't see it surviving now.

Britain led the world for hundreds of years. My take is that the British people have not lost that will to lead.

I'll give you a cuning plan.

Before he officially goes Dave opens a UK wide referendum on Scotland's independence. The people have become so sick of Nicola and her supporters banging on about how badly they were done by in the last ref that Scotland will be out faster than she can pull on a fresh pair of knickers.

Have your independence. Join the EU and lose it again. Join the Euro, and do remember to have your shiny new European Union (Scotland) passport ready at the border.

In the event of a second Scottish referendum, it will be very interesting to see if Spain's stance changes - no to Scottish membership because of the implications for Catalonia. A Scottish independence vote and application for EU membership could indeed be another factor hastening the demise of the EU .....

But assuming its survival, what do you think the EU will look like 10 years down the line, Suff? Will it have undergone significant reforms?

Workingman wrote:I'll give you a cuning plan.

Before he officially goes Dave opens a UK wide referendum on Scotland's independence. The people have become so sick of Nicola and her supporters banging on about how badly they were done by in the last ref that Scotland will be out faster than she can pull on a fresh pair of knickers.

You bad man, you made me laugh out loud at this!

I would genuinely be sad at this, if Scotland left the UK. But there is a feeling that Nicola Sturgeon just won't let it lie until she gets what she wants; and unfortunately the feeling in England is very much "OK then, see you later". If the English got a vote on Scottish independence they would be independent tomorrow. I don't like it but there it is.

Yes - I'll vote for WM's plan and vote for independence for Scotland.

You are quite right WM, either side can secede from the act of the Union and the rest of the UK has the votes to make it stick too.

That would not bother me all that much but I would like to see it.

Ossie, my take on the EU would be like Moscow trying to hold the USSR together in the middle of the Gdansk shipyard strikes.... People like that just never learn from history.

I did just have an interesting thought...

Scotland has the vote and it's a Leave. OR England has the vote and pushes them out. The EU jumps on it like a terrier on a rat and says WELCOME, like scrooge...

Sturgeon agrees to the transaction tax and gets the Banking licenses.
Sturgeon takes the Euro
The EU revokes the banking license for the city
The city moves to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Think it through. They only move 400 miles, the language is English, all of the infrastructure is pretty much the same and most of the institutions already have offices in Edinburgh or Glasgow anyway.

12% of UK GDP, or about 16% of English GDP, migrates to Scotland. And 90% of the Oil revenues.

Scotland winds up with nearly triple the GDP and is a key player at the table in the EU with it's own seat on the Council. The Scots are excellent diplomats, they have to be they've been negotiating with England for 300 years and the Scots are welcome just about everywhere.

Does England want to do itself that much self harm? The UK leaving the EU, fine, it was needed. The UK pushing Scotland out and letting it take the family silver and half the virgin brides with it?

Hardly very clever!

Suff wrote:
The city moves to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

!

We have just been out for lunch with some friends and we discussed exactly that. We talked about the merits of buying a flat in the New Town to let out to some young banker……..

Looking ahead a few years, I can see Scotland becoming independent, then of course Wales,
and N Ireland will opt to join up with Eire, and so back into the EU.

Am I bothered?
Not on your nelly. (cue music) There'll Always Be An England.

Aggers wrote:and N Ireland will opt to join up with Eire, and so back into the EU.

It would not be a simple case of NI opting to join up with Ireland - under the Good Friday Agreement, the NI Secretary can initiate a poll if it can be shown that public opinion wants unity, but then the Republic of Ireland would have to vote on it too. Personally I would vote against it. NI exists largely on the largesse of the UK government and would be a huge drain on our finances that we cannot afford. NI is in a very difficult situation as a result of Brexit.