Vocal Voices

So it seems Cameron tried pleading with Merkel for a concession on freedom of movement, just a few days before the Referendum. And Merkel didn't play ball. I don't blame her in one respect as it would have opened up a complete kettle of fish in Europe, but I hope Theresa May takes notice of this, because it's pretty clear there will be no concessions from the EU in the renegotiation of trade agreements.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum

Mind you, I don't think a last minute Scottish-style "vow" would have made a blind bit of difference to the Leave result. Most Brits had got well beyond believing anything emanating from any politician's mouth by that point.

I also read about the begging of the pathetic and spineless little creep, Cameron.

He did not go to the EU to negotiate, he went with his begging bowl and came back with nothing, that is why Leave won.

He should have fronted the EU with something like: "I, personally, want to stay in the EU. Most UK political parties want to stay in the EU. Most UK politicians want to stay in the EU. UK businesses want to stay in the EU. The UK electorate, on the other hand, is not so sure. So, in order for me to go back to the UK and sell them the EU, these are what you are going to give me (pushes long list towards the Eurocrats). Without them it is game over. Let's talk."

That might just have done it as well, it was sooooo close!

Kaz wrote:.... it was sooooo close!

Wasn't it just. And to think how different things could have been had we had a "leader" with some idea of what he/she wanted to achieve.

You may be interested in this speculation raised today ....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... even-years

I wonder if May has floated it or Merkel? Whichever, too little and too late .....

That could be down to the triumvirate of Davis, Fox and Johnson working with May.

She has put together a strong team re Brexit and maybe the gloves are off. The sad thing is that all of this could and should have been done years ago while the UK was still an active member embedded in the EU.

I've said all along that the only way to negotiate with the EU is back to the wall and gun to the head. Otherwise they just keep on telling you why you are wrong instead of listening to what you need.

They can forget the false hand of offering and the pitiful little seven year breaks. They still think they can fix this. They can't, they broke it by being an arrogant bunch of UK "dismissives" and now they have to live with it.

If May doesn't trigger A50 and soon she can kiss goodbye to any chance of winning an election. Also Labour and the Lib Dems will be damaged by it too. The backlash from the voters of ignoring their will in a referendum will be momentous. More than a million voters tipped the scales. If we take that to a general election I'm guessing that is enough anger to trip the scales of at least 100 seats for UKIP.

The politicians need to beware. Trying to politic their way out of this is not going to work. China is now making overtures to the UK for a trade deal, when the US president changes they will come to the table too. At that point we'll have more trade deals coming into us than we'll have with the EU, probably by a factor of 2:1. Then I'd like to see the dogged remainers talk that one away.

One hundred Kipper MPs: dream on. If they get a 100% increase (two Kipper MPs) it will be a miracle. And May has made it perfectly clear that A50 will not be invoked before the end of the year or early 2017. She has already told Hollande, Merkel and the EU that is the case. The UK will trigger A50 when it is good for us, when all the ducks are in a row, and not before. The EU and the RotW can go whistle.

I am not a dogged Remainer. I have said all along, since Brexit was voted for, that we have to put every effort in to make it work for us. Sod what others want, this is our game and it is for us to control what happens.

Workingman wrote:I am not a dogged Remainer. I have said all along, since Brexit was voted for, that we have to put every effort in to make it work for us. Sod what others want, this is our game and it is for us to control what happens.

That wasn't a dig at you WM, you have, as always, adjusted to the reality of the situation. It was a dig at those who still think they can, somehow, turn the tables on the voters.

100 Kippers was a pipe dream when it was just about parties and running the country and who we liked more than who we didn't.

This isn't that. It seems that the longer we go on the less the lessons of the Scottish Referendum are heeded. Who predicted a near clean sweep of Scotland at Westminster for SNP? Well, actually, me and a lot of others. Why? Betrayal. It doesn't matter what the "reasons" or "reasoned arguments" were. Enough people felt betrayed to really punish the political parties at the polls.

That was a referendum where those who lost by 8% husbanded their anger and drove a change at the polls.

If the will of the people is betrayed on this vote, where the vote was a clear result to leave, the backlash will be cataclysmic and in cataclysmic events the totally unthinkable (SNP sweeping Westminster), becomes quite possible.

It's not so long back that the SNP were struggling to get 2 seats in Westminster. Social media has allowed parties to engage with a huge swathe of voters and it has unpredictable resutls when emotions are running high.