Vocal Voices

What would the remainers lambast us with this time? The end of the world as we know it? Nuclear war? Putin taking over Westminster? An infestation of mice from space looking for green cheese now they know the moon is not made of it?

How would many people who were frightened into voting Remain vote a second time. Given that we now know for sure that the UK economy is not a glass vessel that will shatter at a particularly nasty glance. Or even a few taps from a toddler with a plastic hammer.

Now we know that the US has a president who doesn't like the EU but is very keen for an independent UK aligned with the US, rather than a UK submerged in the EU and "friendly" with the US but constrained by EU countries who don't like the US all that much.

There is a lot of anger out there. People are angry that they were lied to, angry with Cameron for stepping down and they're going to be even more angry when Carney has to raise interest rates over 1% because he, very foolishly, dropped then without any evidence that it was needed, causing a flash crash on the pound.

Then there is the other part of British culture. The Irish, the Danes and others may get referendum fatigue if their government keeps on asking them the same question until they get the answer they want. From what I know and remember of the UK psyche, the Government is more likely to get an appreciable increase in Leave votes until the voters become so sick of them that ever increasing numbers vote Leave just to shut them up and make them accept the will of the people.

Do those of us who wanted Leave need to fear a second referendum? Or does the Remain campaign need to fear more referendums? Deeply? Because if we were to have another one, you can bet your boots it will be binding and actioned on immediately, before anyone could even shout "waitaminuteIwanttochallengeitincourt".

There really must not be a second referendum.

The answer to the question is so simple I am surprised it has to be asked.

If we do have another Remain/Leave referendum, God help us all, it will first and foremost have to be binding. I am happy for it to be carried by a simple majority, but I think many people, on both sides, would wish for it to be on a minimum turn out of, say, 70-75%.

When it comes to the question the only thing Remain should want to know is a clearly defined legal definition of what 'Brexit' means from the Leave side. We already know what Remain means, we live it every day, what we would need to know is what Brexit will mean, and therein lies a problem for the Leave camp.

During the last referendum people did not to 'Leave' based on their understanding of its dictionary definition - move out of or depart from. They voted with their hearts based on the various scenarios laid before them. Leave was never defined or tied down to one option, there were all sorts of choices depending upon which campaign group was asked. It is the reason we are in the mess we find ourselves in today.

The Electoral Society changed the wording of the question from In or Out to Remain or Leave in order to avoid confusion, some good that has done us.

My guess is that if the option to Leave the EU was defined as a total and clean break from all EU treaties and institutions and a return to pre 1973 many former Leave voters would think long and hard before deciding. It would also harden the resolve of Remainers and many of those who were 'don't knows' or simply uninterested would rush to join them.

It is not going to happen, though, you Leavers and us Remainers are going to get a part-pregnant soft Brexit Lite that neither of us voted for.

Workingman wrote:It is not going to happen, though, you Leavers and us Remainers are going to get a part-pregnant soft Brexit Lite that neither of us voted for.

True, we put it in the hands of the politicians. What else could be expect???

Isn't it a bit like voting for an MP. The biggest number of votes get the MP the seat. It could be by only a small majority but that's how it goes. The vote affects everyone even the ones that did not get what they wanted. To me the referendum works in the same way.

Absolute bl**dy shambles

No arguments there, Meds, but what version of 'Leave' did you vote for? And what about those of Suff, Cromwell, Ossie or any other Leavers you can think of?

Remainers knew exactly what they were voting for. Leavers did not have a clue. There were any number of flavours of Brexit, as we are seeing daily in the papers and on TV. Which one did each individual vote for? We do not know because the ballot paper did not have the option: If you voted Leave which is your preferred choice a. b. c or d.? All it had was Remain or Leave.

Today there was a bit of a ding-ding in the Commons ending with David Davis, Brexit minister, saying:

The simple fact is that the mandate (in June's referendum) was to leave the European Union - full stop. We need to keep that in mind when we are going through that process.

If the vote really was to leave the European Union - full stop then we do not need all this nonsense at the Supreme Court with May saying that she will publish the Brexit plan for scrutiny by MPs before triggering A50. We also do not need the shilly-shallying and negotiations, two years or 18 months or whatever number the next speaker comes up with.

The "Plan" should be very simple. A50 is triggered on Monday. On Tuesday May goes to Brussels with a portfolio of treaties we are going to break. She says: "Here is the list, lads. Draw up the paperwork and I will be back, shall we say Friday?" She then walks out.

That's "Brexit" anything else is fudge.

Vic, you are so right.

I probably voted for out now Frank - and don't forget to pull up the drawbridge

The remainers had nothing really to think about - they voted for the status quo. On the other hand, I would imagine the leavers either wanted to take back sovereignty or stem the flow of uncontrolled immigration. The majority who voted to leave were surely able to work out that there would have to be some manoeuvring during the leaving process, but that the final outcome would be worth any potential pain, or not. Those making the most noise seem to be the MPs in Parliament who voted to remain.

I don't need a drawbridge

I voted Remain, but I now want a proper Brexit - hard Brexit.

That is what was on the ballot paper and that is what should be delivered.