Vocal Voices

Senior republicans and Trump's team tell Boris the UK is "front of the queue" for a trade deal. The Aussies want a completely tariff free deal with the UK and say "Britain is back, freed of Brussels Bureaucracy". Nice to know.

Meanwhile Merkel says "There can be NO access to EU markets without open borders for free movement of goods, capital, services and people".

Perhaps, before they complete the signing of CETA, they might want to clarify that with Canada. I'm sure it will go down Supremely well with China and India when they negotiate trade deals with them too. After all the bar is set. The US might not be so keen though.

I wonder if they realise just what a bunch of idiots they sound like???

Trump's team tell Boris 'something', but no negotiations till (hard) Brexit is formally completed. At least we will be at the front of the queue, but who else is in it?

Aha! The Aussies also want hard Brexit then, but no negotiations till Brexit is formally completed.

Merkel is only repeating what the EU has been saying since before the referendum: Brexit will be 'hard'; but still Leavers voted for it.

CETA has nothing to do with Brexit.... it is an EU/Canada deal. The only reference is that it is the EU dealing with a foreign country, which is what India and China also are, and what the UK will become following Brexit.

Workingman wrote:CETA has nothing to do with Brexit.... it is an EU/Canada deal. The only reference is that it is the EU dealing with a foreign country, which is what India and China also are, and what the UK will become following Brexit.

Of course CETA has something to do with it. It is a trade deal the EU has just written to trade with a foreign country.

The UK will spend the next two years negotiating a foreign country trade deal with the EU.

Merkel has just said that it is impossible to negotiate a foreign country trade deal without the same terms as membership of the EU would confer.

If the EU fully ratifies CETA than that statement is a LIE and the press should be shouting that from the rooftops.

Notably the press and the media are taking the same line you are WM, that somehow, magically, the EU can say one thing to a nation it has just done a trade deal with and another thing to the UK. In fact the press and media are colluding in giving the impression that the EU can say one thing to all the other countries in the world and something else to the UK, but, somehow, make it seem like it is a normal practise and not a deliberate attempt to pervert the trade negotiations with the EU.

What I want to see is this stance challenged. Because it's nothing more than posturing and there is nothing behind it. The EU wants more trade deals. In particular TTIIP.

I'm sure Trump is exactly the person to call them on this. After all there is no way in the world that the US, or Canada for that fact, are going to allow in the Islamic terrorists with EU passports to freely travel in the EU AND the US/Canada.

It is complete drivel and I look forward to the day that someone actually stands up and says so.

The best thing the UK can say is that either the EU gives us a preferential trade deal or we will cease to allow _any_ EU goods into the UK. Forget trade barriers, there will be a trade wall the EU will have no access to and to hell with WTO rules.

It's just as much BS as Markel's statement. However it might be a point of dialogue. It seems that if they want a trade equivalent of MAD, then we might as well oblige them.

Suff wrote:Notably the press and the media are taking the same line you are WM, that somehow, magically, the EU can say one thing to a nation it has just done a trade deal with and another thing to the UK.

That is because it is the truth. CETA is a bilateral trade deal between the EU and Canada based on negotiated terms. Neither side has to offer any of those terms to any other country it wishes to do a bilateral trade deal with. Each deal stands on its own. When it comes to any trade deal between the EU and UK it will also be a bespoke deal.

I can find no reference to Merkel saying anything of the sort marked out as a LIE, but I do note that if Canada deals one way with one member it also has to deal the same way with all members. I see no problem with that. There is no collusion over anything. The EU is not saying one thing to all other countries and another to the UK. If anything it is the UK saying that it wants preferential treatment by the EU because it will be a former member.

TTIP also has nothing to do with Brexit. It is a (failed) deal between the the EU and the US. Nobody is sure it will ever become reality, not that it matters that much. The EU and US already have a trade deal under the terms of Transatlantic Economic Council from 2007, and all trade deals are always open to renegotiation. Again, no problem.

Sorry not getting this through.

Merkel is saying that to do a trade deal there can be no open access to the EU markets without there being open borders (essentially).

Here

That is a LIE. The EU is not going to negotiate an internal deal with the UK it is going to negotiate an external deal with an external UK.

Having just negotiated open access to it's markets with Canada, making that statement to the UK is complete nonsense.

Even then, we don't want full and open access to the EU markets. We want free and fair trade. Something the EU does not do.

I'm sick and tired of the EU doing one thing and saying another. This is just another example. The EU Can't negotiate a trade deal with the UK because they are in a huff and don't want to. Fine, say that.

Let's see the comparisons.

CETA took 7 years to negotiate. It has no open borders, the trade and legal systems are different and they had to negotiate special courts to protect the Canadian businesses from the "protectionist" EU courts.

UK has the same laws, pretty much similar legal systems, all EU directives are implemented in law and we already trade under the "protectionist" EU courts.

So it's possible to do a trade deal with Canada, which is totally different, but not possible to do a trade deal with the UK. Why? They're scared to in case another country gets the same idea and the whole ball of wax winds up unravelling.

It's "tell the truth" time, but instead politicians, especially Merkel and her French compatriots, are campaigning for an election soon to come this year. We're going to hear pretty much anything BUT the truth. So we should either call them on the BS or ignore it as election campaigning.

It's no wonder I ignore just about all of it.

Wait a minute, CETA does not give Canada open access to EU markets, far from it. Canada gets some access in some areas, but the rest are restricted. In return the EU gets access to some previously restricted Canadian markets CETA is not the Swiss model, nor is it an EEA Norway model, it is a Canada model and it is new.

Merkel was talking about full single market access for the UK in terms of Brexit and regarding the free movement of goods, capital, people and the freedom to provide services. In that she is right, the UK cannot "cherry pick" the best bits, it will have to negotiate. The Swiss model is not free access, it is an ad hoc mish-mash of deals in specific areas. In return the Swiss had to join Schengen and allow free movement of people. The Norwegian model is free access, of a sorts, but the Norwegians have to pay in without any say in the EU's rules and regs. It has to allow free movement and it also had to join Schengen. The Canada model is, well, the Canada model.

Merkel and others have been telling the truth, even though that truth is unpalatable to Leavers.

Workingman wrote:Wait a minute, CETA does not give Canada open access to EU markets, far from it. Canada gets some access in some areas, but the rest are restricted.

Right so

Overall, the tariffs for 98.6% of all Canadian tariff lines and 98.7% of all EU
tariff lines will ultimately be fully eliminated

Doesn't mean "open access", it means "just a few bits". Now, when I went to school anything over 80% was considered to be hugely significant, anything over 90% was virtually total and 1.3% off 100% was considered full and unlimited "with a few clauses".

In reality the opt out's that the UK have from the EU "open access", in trade, are more significant than the agreement Canada has with the EU.

Workingman wrote:In that she is right, the UK cannot "cherry pick" the best bits.

Actually my understanding of a trade negotiation is that it is all about "cherry picking" what you do and don't want to trade then coming together with a compromise which suits you both. It most certainly IS cherry picking.

So, yes, I say "better let Canada know now" and that Merkel is "lying in her teeth".

I see nothing to change my position on that.