Vocal Voices

I’m not going to pretend that this isn’t difficult for the Labour Party. There are colleagues in the Parliamentary Labour Party who are very concerned, as am I, about the outcome of the referendum. We have two thirds of our MPs in heavily Leave areas, we have one third in heavily Remain areas.

Well there you have it. Any words after that statement are an attempt at spin or face saving. Simply put, voters have given Labour their marching orders and are sitting there waiting for Labour to act on those orders.

Anything other than observing those orders and carrying them out will elicit instant censure. In other words, 66% of Labour MP's could lose their seats and it won't be to the Lib Dems either.

Can't happen? Tell the Labour MP's of Scotland, they'd love to know that one.

Starmer is being an idiot. No matter what he says, the middle of the road people who have simple values will hear it as "we're trying not to do what you told us to do; whilst trying to make you believe we are looking after you". Brexit is a simple instruction. GET US OUT. There is nothing difficult about it.

You certainly can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But there comes a time when almost everyone is not going to be fooled no matter what you say or do. This is one of those times and Labour needs to make a decision. Stand up for your principles and fall on your sword (a.k.a Lib Dems and the coalition at the last election), or do as you are told and to hell with your "principles".

Personally I believe that MP's have no right to personal principles. Their job is to do as they are told by the people. Granted you need to take stock of the kind of person they are because you don't want to be micro managing them. But, on issues like this, their principles, wishes, or aspirations, have nothing to do with it.

Over time a big problem has evolved. Our representatives aren't actually very representative of the views of the population.

Still, you gotta laugh. Jezbollah Corbyn has said that Labour will seek to "amend every stage" of the government's bill to leave the EU. The SNP has stated they will introduce "50 serious and substantial" amendments to the bill.*

Just one thing - they don't know what's in the bill yet! But they are going to amend it anyway.

So when some greasy MP comes on TV saying "Of COURSE we are not trying to frustrate the will of the British people, we just feel that it is necessary etc etc etc" just remember that they are probably lying their heads off.

*That should ensure that support for Scottish Independence reaches 100% - in England and Wales.

I don't see what the problem is. Starmer's figures are broadly accurate, so he has told the truth.

If anything he is pointing out to those whose personal belief is to remain that if they are in a leave area, and ever so many are, then they had better be careful about how they vote.

He is showing a bit of common sense.

Workingman wrote:He is showing a bit of common sense.

He's mixing a very subtle blend of absolute truth with a shady attempt to derail A50 at the parliament level.

I wonder when it will occur to them all that once A50 is triggered then Parliament will get to say "Yes" or parliament will get to say "No" to any deal and then we'll be out and it will be the EU that determines if out is 2 years or faster. Not the UK.

It's amusing to watch.

As for the SNP and Liebour amending the bill? First of all they don't know if the bill, as it stands, will be a vote of confidence or not. May would be insane to try anything else. Secondly the government can simply say "no amendment" and call a vote. Also the government can push the bill to the HOL, turn it around again in 3 or 4 days with no changes, by ramming the vote through parliament and keep doing it till the HOL veto expires (3 rounds), then push it through as it was first written.

I suspect that the way this goes is going to shock the hell out of a lot of MP's who believe that each and every thing parliament does is "totally negotiable". They will learn that triggering A50 is not negotiable and if they want to try and make it so will trigger a general election which will put 66% of Labour seats at risk.

In this May is right. She's in the driving seat. They would all have been better off letting her trigger it without a bill. But at least it's going to highlight a few things about our parliamentary process. It won't only be Trump hammering things through in short order.

Personally I'd like the second vote on the bill after Feb 23rd. Allowing the voters in the by elections to get the full view of the shenanigans which have gone on and having their "say" on it.

I cannot see how an MP warning those 2/3 of his colleagues who have seats in Leave areas to be careful when voting on A50 can in any way be interpreted as some shady way of delaying A50.

If I was an MP whose belief was to Remain, but whose seat was in an area that voted to Leave I would not need his warning to think long and hard before voting to delay. I would already know that my time would be up come the next election so would not do it. MPs are, after all, fully paid up members of the Self Preservation Society.

I do not like Labour or its policies and have never voted for it nor ever will, but I am not going to jump on every anti-Labour bandwagon that trundles past.

That was just at the beginning of the article.

Later it says

But this is a party that campaigned to remain and is now accepting we've lost that and defining where we go from here.”

Along with another few statements it is clear that Starmer desperately wants to derail Brexit but is faced with the stark reality of the threat to it's MP's who campaigned to stay and received overwhelming votes to leave in their constituencies.

I sniff that their shenanigans are not up yet.

But this is a party that campaigned to remain and is now accepting we've lost that and defining where we go from here.”

Yes, it campaigned to Remain and lost and now accepts that. It might well have to define where it goes from here, but every utterance from its leadership has been that it will do nothing to attempt to overturn the referendum or block the triggering of A50.

Just where is the problem?

I do not hear any harping on about Tories who wanted to Remain and who might revolt against the government even though their seats are in areas where Leave was in the majority.

Double standards?

Workingman wrote:Double standards?

Not really I'm equally harsh about the Tories when they hit the press. However the Tories who are anti Brexit tend to be in constituencies which voted for Remain. They are not so conflicted and also campaigned for remain.

It is Labour which is conflicted with it's voters. Even though they are saying they won't block it, they are also making noises about, essentially, neutering it. This is not what their voters want and it's not what their voters voted for.

Personally I expect some Tories to rebel. But they won't pay the price at the polls.

What amuses me most is all these Labour MP's who desperately don't want Brexit and are totally out of touch with their voters. However they are scared. Really, really, scared.

So whilst I do give the Tories their due for the Remoaners, it is the Labour Remoaners who have little choice which I tend to watch because they are the wild card.