National insurance contributions

[medsec222]

I am not surprised that a row has ensued. The NI tax hike on the self employed will obviously hit those at the lower end of the earnings scale extremely hard. It goes against Iain Duncan Smith's proposals that being in work should be more beneficial than being on benefits. It is the wrong time to make this change. Perhaps making the change gradually over a longer period of time might be more realistic. It is difficult to say as the NI fund seems to be wide open to abuse and a free for all, when those who have never paid in are entitled to take out.

[Workingman]

It is a difficult problem for both sides.

I have been self-employed twice. I used it as a way of not being registered as unemployed and on the dole. It kept me active, offered me an opportunity to try something else, even though I earned very little, and it saved the government on benefits. I imagine that there are now thousands doing a similar thing following all the job losses over the past few years. Some of them will fly, some are waiting for a 'proper' job to turn up, but many will fail and eventually end up on benefits.

The problem for government is that the more people there are on SE the smaller the NI pot becomes....It is a double edged sword.

I have long held the belief that work related benefits do not help the unemployed.. The rules are black and white and without any flexibility. They way they operate actually locks people in rather than helping them back to work, to escape. IDS, to be fair, recognised this and did try to make changes. Unfortunately the government has fallen back on the tired old way of thinking: in work = PAYE, out of work = benefits.

[Suff]

After a back bench rebellion, May is sitting on it. No surprise there. The vast majority of self employed are Tory voters...

[Workingman]

The vast majority of self employed are Tory voters...

That might well be true, though I am not sure, but it should not be the reason for kicking the new rates into the long grass.

Many new businesses in the self-employed sector hardly make a profit or even a living wage for the first three years, and about 60% are gone within five years. OK, they might never reach the threshold for paying Cat 2 or Cat 4, but if they do not make voluntary contributions their pensions or other benefits will be affected later down the line. That's the Catch 22.

Self-employment or small business start-ups are happening now because of 1) Job losses in recent years and 2) Job opportunities.

A third might be the rules regarding benefits, but that is something else.

Nonetheless it is piss poor for the government to target these people at this time. They are keeping the unemployment figures and JSA payments down.

[Suff]

That might well be true, though I am not sure

My father used to say that to be in the forces and vote Labour is to be an idiot.

Personally I believe the same about being self employed and voting Labour. Labour's very ethos is to "empower" the wage slave. They could give a crap about people who have the get up and go to do it for themselves....

However, as you said, it is very poor to attack the self employed right now. But political reality is that May is playing to the disaffected Labour vote who voted to Leave.... That changes all downstream politics from that main issue.

[Workingman]

So reality bites and the NI proposal is scrapped. This lady is for turning and it is possibly a good thing to do it at present - take the hit in the press now and move on. She is going to need a calm media when Brexit starts for real.

May has bigger fish to fry in the near future and she probably whispered in Hammond's shell-like to go out and admit it was in the manifesto and that it was a mistake..... or else.

[Suff]

Right now I'm watching the public contract jobs bubble up to 20% more than they were paying before. This is before the legislation actually bites and people realise just how much they are going to lose.

As my friend always said, it is not that they shoot themselves in the foot. It is the speed at which they reload so that they can do it again. I expect a lot more foot shooting as May tries to woo voters who are not natural Tory voters.