Vocal Voices

A wonderful way of making a relationship.

The EU has been trying, for more than a year now, to stop the UK from talking to EU member state heads of government. Demanding that the UK can only negotiate with the EU and therefore should not be trying to "influence" the member states.

So, right at the bottom of the Independent article on Barnier's demand that the UK bring their proposal on EU citizens rights within 5 days, we see this.

Before meeting Mr Davis on Monday, Mr Barnier will hold talks with both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones, the leaders of Scotland and Wales respectively.

Not very subtle and not very cute either.

Can't wait to get rid of the whole lot of them.

Ah more perceived double standards by the EU as seen through the eyes of Leavers as they watch the Brexit disaster unfold and Remain's Project Fear turns into Project Truth.

Before meeting Mr Davis on Monday, Mr Barnier will hold talks with both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon and Carwyn Jones, the leaders of Scotland and Wales respectively.

So let us clarify the situation with the missing part of Barnier's remarks, eh?

However, he stressed that he will only negotiate with the UK Government – not with opposition politicians.

'Talking to' is not the same as 'negotiating with' and Corbyn, Sturgeon and Jones have nothing to negotiate.

'Clutching at straws', on the other hand, will always be 'clutching at straws'. Hold on tight.

Workingman wrote:'Talking to' is not the same as 'negotiating with' and Corbyn, Sturgeon and Jones have nothing to negotiate.

That is what we said to them and they said it was "unacceptable" for us to talk to the leaders of the (semi) Sovereign states, who are to vote on our final deal.

But our EUphile press simply won't expose that.

I don't mind them talking to those others. But not if they have already told us that it is not acceptable to do the same within the EU.

Scum. The lot of them.

[quote="Suff] Scum. The lot of them.[/quote]

That's strong talk.

But I like it.

There is a Hell of a big difference between May talking (quasi-negotiating) individually with other EU leaders who hold cards in the Brexit negotiations, when negotiating competence has been handed over to Barnier and his team, and Barnier talking to UK politicians who have little more than paper napkins to wave.

The press is not exposing anything because there is nothing to expose.

If we were in a situation with a majority government where the position was stable and nothing could be gained from it, then, yes, I would agree.

However that is not the case here. The government does not have a majority and if Barnier can create enough dissent in the Tory party and enough common cause with the others, then he can interfere "directly" in the UK negotiations.

This is something May is not able to do with the states in the EU. They have ratified a directive allowing the EU to negotiate and removing themselves, entirely, from the negotiation. All they get is a vote on whether it is acceptable or not, they do not get to set or agree the terms.

The levels of interference are not, as you say, comparable. Because Barnier's influence in the UK is, potentially, significantly greater than the merest possibility of any influence in the EU via the member states.

That is newsworthy. It is being ignored.

So why were we not told of all these potential pitfalls in the run up to the referendum? They were there, they were 'known knowns'. Was it better for you Leavers to keep them hidden? You bet it was.

For months we were given reasons, assurances and cast-iron guarantees that the EU would not do this, could not do that and were prevented from doing the other, anybody who argued against was a fantasist living in cloud-cuckoo land - stupid Remoaners. Yet here we are with the EU doing this, that and the other, just as we foretold.

Brexitopia is turning to Brexithell before our very eyes and everyone and his dog is to blame - UKIP voters, Labour, the electorate, the EU, next door's cat, Canada, anyone so long as they are not the Tories or Leavers.

The only thing newsworthy is that Leavers are turning paranoid. Do I feel a bit smug, of course I do.

Well we weren't told this because the government which had, unfortunately, called the referendum in a fit of Democracy, was a majority government.

The situation we are in now was never expected because nobody would have considered that those who voted for Brexit would vote again, before Brexit and vote to cripple it.

So it wasn't an issue and now it is. The press should be talking about it. They're not because most of them are EUphiles.

I am not surprised by the actions of the EU we were only asked to join in the first place for our contributions financially and through Nato and our military/nuclear clout.

History has shown the UK cannot trust the EU countries to play fair.

I am saddened by all the squabbling by all concerned when the future of our country is at stake and the future of all of us incidentally.

A vote was taken and whether by lies or not the voters decided we should leave, now we should all pull together to get the best deal for us all and move on and write a new future without the constrictions of the EU non elected politicians.

Manxie xx