Vocal Voices

cromwell wrote:I agree with the lack of appropriate punishment Aggers. One problem is that the prisons are running at near full capacity.
Rather than build more prisons, which are expensive to build and staff, excuses are found to avoid sending criminals to jail.

If prison life was made more unpleasant, I consider that prison sentences could be shortened,
as ex-prisoners would leave wishing never to return. This would solve the capacity problem.
It would probably reduce the number of re-offenders, too.

Maybe it is time to look at different models for "prison systems" rather than our traditional "lump 'em all together" system.

We would of course still need class A and B prisons for the hard nuts who are a danger to society, the types I mentioned earlier. Those prisons should be strict and structured with prisoners in uniform and no mod cons. And, yes, I do agree with the death penalty for some crimes.

We could then maybe look at some of the Scandinavian models for prisoners who are not thought to be a danger to the public (Grade C and below). They are still closed prisons, but ones where inmates are allowed out to work, if they have a job, so that they do not become an unemployed burden at a later date. If they do not have work then they are made to attend training designed to get them into work upon release. At all other times they are securely locked up and only get visiting rights at certain times.

Could be worth a try.

cromwell wrote:I agree with the lack of appropriate punishment Aggers. One problem is that the prisons are running at near full capacity.
Rather than build more prisons, which are expensive to build and staff, excuses are found to avoid sending criminals to jail.

When I said that punishments for crimes are not severe enough, I was not referring to the length of sentences,
but to the treatment of prisoners. I consider that life in prison should be so horrible that those subjected to it
would vow never to again give cause to be convicted. Shorter sentences could then be applied, which would
deal with the accommodation problem, and would most certainly reduce the number of re-offenders. One gets
the impression today that prisons are more like holiday camps.

Aggers, I said earlier "Those prisons should be strict and structured with prisoners in uniform and no mod cons."

I know someone who was sent to prison during the miner's strike in 1984-5. All he did was steal two catering cans of beans from a local school kitchen. In those days prisons were places you did not want to go back to, so he never did.

You are right. Prison life should be so hard that any normal person would want to avoid it at all costs. We have to get away from the soft touch, 'uman rights, pink and fluffy holiday camps we have today.

Workingman wrote:You are right. Prison life should be so hard that any normal person would want to avoid it at all costs.
We have to get away from the soft touch, 'uman rights, pink and fluffy holiday camps we have today.

That is my view entirely. But why don't the 'powers that be' see it that way?
Perhaps a psychiatrist could tell us?

AliasAggers wrote:That is my view entirely. But why don't the 'powers that be' see it that way?

Because our society has created this fallacy of Inalienable Human Rights; where it doesn't matter what an individual does, we, society, can't be "bad" to them.

Personally I'd like to take these "Inalienable Human Rights" activists to the middle of the Amazon jungle, take away all but their clothes and see if they can work out the difference between "Benefits of Society, for which we pay a price" and "Inalienable Human Rights"... Before something eats them!!

The death penalty in America doesn't seem to have much effect, their murder rates are horrendous!

Kaz wrote:The death penalty in America doesn't seem to have much effect, their murder rates are horrendous!

That's interesting. I wonder why?

It is widely held in scientific circles that life on Planet Earth cannot exist mush longer than about fifty years now,
because humans are ruining the planet. Could it be that this knowledge is, somehow, perhaps unknowingly, now
becoming implanted in people's minds to such an extent that it is influencing their behaviour? As this forecast of
the possible, almost certain, destiny of life on Earth becomes more obvious, we can expect an even greater trend
in unsociable human behaviour.

As a slight side issue, what do you feel about the banning of smoking (tobacco) in prisons, under H&S legislation? Chatting with a prison worker at Guy's Marsh last year, he told me it had sent the price of contraband tobacco through the roof at Cardiff prison, where the prohibition had just been introduced, and that some inmate were trying to scrape the nicotine off patches and smoke that as a substitute .... and it is fueling the rise in other drug use and violence.

Is it an acceptable form of making "prison life ..... so hard that any normal person would want to avoid it at all costs", if I can pinch from WM's earlier post?

To be honest, I don't know what to think about banning smoking in prisons.