Vocal Voices

The politicians stock in trade for getting what they want...

Or so it would seem. Until the EU try to do a hatchet job on May.

So, the EU started the last week with 20bn on the table and a call for ever more before negotiations can begin. Naturally the £ sank as it always does when it looks like the EU is going to have its own way.

One leak later claiming that May is weak and begging and the EU winds up facing the whole 20bn going up in smoke and the possibility that the UK will walk if the EU don't start negotiating at the 20bn level.

A huge problem with the EU is that they simply don't understand the UK. To us negotiation is a matter of business, not weakness. In fact when we are negotiating, we see ridicule from the other party as a weakness of them.

This has set the stage for May and Davis to walk away with full Tory party support..

Leaks, a double edged sword. They should have learned that from the last time... The £ bounced nicely too...

Suff wrote:A huge problem with the EU is that they simply don't understand the UK.

But not vice-versa eh?

The barstewards, refusing to bend over backwards to meet our demands. Well I never! So, we are going to stomp off to WTO Utopia, are we? I suggest May, Davis and Brexitears have a bit of a read.

Meanwhile the world looks on and wonders whether to trade with 60m or 450m. Tough one.

"Boss, this place wants our widgets at $x, but this other bigger place wants 7.5 times the number but at 20 cents less. What do I do?"

"If you need to ask you're fired. Go for the 7.5 times: bonehead."

Does anyone else ever get the impression that from a trade point of view the EU could not care less which way Brexit goes?

*Puts hand up* I do!

Me too.

All they really want is some of our money.

Workingman wrote:But not vice-versa eh?

The barstewards, refusing to bend over backwards to meet our demands.

Ah yes, our demands.

What have we demanded??

To leave. Oh wait, that is not a demand, that is a right.

Oh right, I get it now, we've demanded that the EU negotiate a mutually equitable exit deal which allows the UK to exit the EU with as little damage as possible to either side.

Of course those wonderful chaps and chapesses in the EU have done what??

DEMANDED that the UK continue to subscribe to EU funds even though we will no longer be a member state.

DEMANDED that their legal system override the UK system even though the treaties which give it legitimacy will no longer apply.

DEMANDED that their citizens continue to receive full EU rights in the UK even though the treaties which underpin those rights no longer apply.

Then the EU tells us that because they spent months writing their negotiating (suicide) pact, that all progress in exit "negotiations" will be measured against their own inflexible demands and they absolutely refuse to talk about the old used car we are going to buy, sight unseen, until we sign an unlimited open cheque for them to draw on.

Oh yes, the so reasonable EU Who are so secure that they don't need to do a trade deal with the fifth largest economy in the world, after all only the UK can be hurt by that.

The UK leaving the EU is a great opportunity for them, they have a chance to get all the money they want, sell us all their overpriced goods, lock us out of the world markets that would grow our economy and the cherry on the top is that they get rid of our Anglo-Saxon economic model and our ancient democracy.

Wonderful people the EU.

All we need to do to stop it?

One word. No.

Suff wrote:DEMANDED that the UK continue to subscribe to EU funds even though we will no longer be a member state.

DEMANDED that their legal system override the UK system even though the treaties which give it legitimacy will no longer apply.

DEMANDED that their citizens continue to receive full EU rights in the UK even though the treaties which underpin those rights no longer apply.

Yes, but not forever. We signed up on budgets till 2020 and we still have those obligations, though I suppose there is some wriggle room to be negotiated. And we will also get some reciprocation for Brits in the EU regarding the citizens.

When it comes to some of the other things let us not forget that it is us leaving the club and its rules. It is not really intransigent of the club not to want to change its rules to suit the leaving member. It is also not really for us to demand anything, however, polite requests might work.

Also I did not say that the EU would want to lose our market, it is important to them. What I am saying it that for them it is only one item on a long list, but not the defining item. For us it is the priority. We both need each other's markets, and hopefully we are working towards some sort of agreement. We will still need to trade with each other post Brexit and it is madness for anyone, on either side, to think otherwise.

And finally I have never said that we should stop it. I have been quite clear from the day the result was in that we should go ahead, and I am still clear on that. That does not mean I cannot be critical of way things are going or that I think everything in the garden will be rosy once we have left - implementation period or not.

i know, it's not you WM, but I am heartily sick of the backstabbing and fearmongering going on about the whole thing.

The EU is cutting its nose off to spite its face; through the very real fear of contagion.

The real point about the whole thing is that the EU is treating the UK with total disrespect. Were this the first time, then I would not be quite so harsh about it, but this is not the first time the EU has show disrespect, to the UK or to the PIIGS. They have this vision that they are all powerful. In fact they are only just larger than China (with the UK gone), whilst, as a military power, being somewhat slightly more powerful than China.

I know it's a wrench for some in the UK to understand that the UK is, militarily, more powerful than the entire EU, but it is the bare truth.

When we come down to trade I am somewhat dismayed to find people still believe that the UK is "only one of a long list of countries" that the EU trades with. Let's get that one and blast it to bits where it belongs. The UK is THIRD on a Very Short list of Large Countries that the EU exports heavily to and it is a Very short list of EU countries which count when you tot that list up. Only 7 in fact once the UK is gone. Because when the UK goes there will only be 7 net contributors, to the budget, left and the UK is solidly the third or second largest export market for those 7 countries.

What the UK will do to the EU budget, in a hard brexit scenario, is nothing short of catastrophic.

The EU talks about the UK bluffing. The EU is running the biggest bluff of all time and remainers are sucking it all up, as they have done all along.

Suff wrote:When we come down to trade I am somewhat dismayed to find people still believe that the UK is "only one of a long list of countries" that the EU trades with.

I have never heard or seen that one. I cannot make my mind up whether it is a Remoaner or a
Brexiteer POV.

When it comes to budgets the EU has two cycles - annually and seven year. The annual one is covered till we leave so there will be no big changes there. The seven-year one starts again in 2020 and no doubt there will have to be cuts to cover the £8.6bn net we put in the pot every year.

It sounds a lot as a raw figure, but we are spending nearly six times that (£50bn) just to service the UK debt. I think they will survive.