Vocal Voices

At long last somebody in parliament has the nous to speak out.

Robert Halfon, the chairman of the Education Select Committee, tells us that between a fifth and a third of graduates take non-graduate jobs so do not, and never will, get the supposed graduate premium falsely promised to them by schools, FE colleges and Universities. That is something between 120,000 to 190,000 students each year who run up massive debts on literally worthless qualifications.

He also says that the premiums between degrees vary wildly. Incredible! So someone with a 2:1 in a STEM subject is likely to get a more secure and better paid job than someone with a 2:1 in The History of Watercolour in the Modernist era. What a surprise or perhaps not.

He also suggests that universities which do not provide a good return for graduates on academic courses could reinvent themselves as "centres of technical excellence". In other words they could go back to doing something they were good at when they were known as polytechnics, tech colleges or plain old colleges.

The country is crying out for the skills once found at OND/BTEC/City and Guilds level yet those with the aptitude to succeed in them find courses are few and far between... so they go to Uni. Unfortunately it is going to need a whole culture change in education and in the young themselves for anything positive to happen.

I saw that, and agree with your views - especially that we need a pretty drastic culture change, because the current raft of technical schools and apprentice courses are simply not attracting any sort of numbers in applications. And more than a few are looking at shutting up shop.

We should start by closing down some of these third tier universities and streamline the whole further education regime. As it is, there are far more places than decent candidates, and they are taking anyone this year, offering incentives to sign up to boot.

Yep I saw that too. There is only one flaw in this argument. These Universities suck in tens of thousands of international students who pay more than the UK students. Literally they are a gold mine. But the Universities will never keep their standing if we don't front load them with UK students to keep the ratings up.

We've discussed this up and down for years now. The current Uni culture is BS. But it is unlikely to change now unless there is a sea change in the perceptions of the people of the UK themselves. Once UK workers perceive UNI as a bad investment, then revenues will fall and consolidation will set in.

Until then? Expect more debt...

I agree with the general consensus. We need more doers, more skilled tradesmen and engineers. The education industry is a bit of a monster, dedicated to shoving everybody through higher education when a lot of young people would like to get earning money asap.

cromwell wrote:I We need more doers, more skilled tradesmen and engineers.

I quite agree. We need to have more emphasis on apprentiships and associated further education.

I just don't understand why so much emphasis is placed on university education, but I suppose we have Toney Blair to blame for that.

cromwell wrote:I agree with the general consensus. We need more doers, more skilled tradesmen and engineers. The education industry is a bit of a monster, dedicated to shoving everybody through higher education when a lot of young people would like to get earning money asap.

Yes!!!!!

cromwell wrote:I agree with the general consensus. We need more doers, more skilled tradesmen and engineers. The education industry is a bit of a monster, dedicated to shoving everybody through higher education when a lot of young people would like to get earning money asap.

Another "Yes!" from me.

A degree is not necessary to become an electrician, elictrical technician, mechanical engineering technician, plumber, joiner/carpenter, many skilled jobs in civil engineering or in tourism and leisure and so on. They are all "skilled" in their own ways and a certain level of academic intelligence is required to become good at them, but a degree?

Unfortunately many companies offering this sort of work now ask for a degree, any degree, yet they still have to train the newcomers up in their way of doing things. If the middle man, the University, was taken out it would be a cheaper and more efficient a way of doing things for all concerned.

The country desperately needs these people, but when Tarquin and Annabelinda have their degrees they are not interested. Management in a FTSE 100 company is what they want, anything else is below them.... until reality kicks in as the flip burgers for a living or are training to be a sous-barista in a bijou cafe in an upcoming (former slum) area of the inner suburbs.

Yes from me too.

In my profession there are many with degrees. Mainly in English. Because these people go into computing intending to be in management.

I don't have a degree. Yes it's not helped from time to time but it is far from a barrier, as I proved to my youngest son some decade ago.

For the most part when I'm responsible for employing someone to work for me, the last thing I look for is a degree and if they have a degree and limited experience against just limited experience, I'll take the person without the degree. Simply because the non degree person has, in most cases, a more down to earth approach to what I'm asking them to do.

It looks as though we here are all of the same opinion in this subject, and so, I imagine,
are the majority of people.

I think those of us who remember how education and the workplace used to be can see how badly the current system is letting down the young people. Trying to shove all youngsters down an academic route, keeping them out of the workforce until they are in their twenties, and saddling them with huge debts. Then they get a massive reality check when the promised jobs are not available