Vocal Voices

I've been reading the claims and counter claims of the (supposed), fact, that Corbyn was passing paid information to the Czech government and then onwards to Russia. All during the cold war.

Could it be true? Certainly, he has never been averse to letting people know his politics are Way left of centre. He supports exactly the same kind of groups that the USSR used to support. His sympathies do not lie with a capitalist UK. It is also quite possible that nobody ever said anything, even though they knew, simply because he was so insignificant and that he had crawled out on a limb which it simply wasn't worth lopping off because it would not scare enough people. Things are not quite the same now that his head is well and truly above the parapet.

Could it be false? Absolutely. The USSR spies and especially the satellite spies were not above and beyond overstating the penetration they had made into the western governments. False statements were made over and over again, even though the agents knew that punishment would be hard if they were ever caught at it by cross checking. Then again promotion, advancement and privilege were the prizes to be gained. In the regime of the USSR these were like golden eggs and avidly sought after.

Bits and pieces to dig out of the mire. The Czech spy claimed that Corbyn was a paid informant with a code name. This can be verified by the Stasi files from East Germany, who funnelled the Czech info to Moscow. Germany has those files and are quite avid in seeking out traitors, even today. If money was being supplied, there will be a very carefully documented trail of that. Hard cash was more scarce than food in Russia and the DDR, it was _never_ handed out without strong controls on it. Also the sums were so low, that there had to be a strong ideology behind any Western spies to drive them to betray their countries.

Now I don't like Corbyn or his politics. I like Momentum even less. However, that being said, I will not just condemn the man because some accusations have been made.

The accusation has been made and there now needs to be an investigation. Parliament has the power and the intelligence services will have the knowledge or can get the knowledge. Corbyn, now, has to either clear his name or be found guilty. There is no other way. He cannot and should not, be allowed to just continue without the investigation being made.

That being said. Corbyn should continue in his role until that investigation is fully concluded and the results made public. This should not be a witch hunt, it should be a fact finding expedition to prove the innocence (or otherwise), of Corbyn.

Those press articles calling for the investigation are the ones I read. The others either condemning him, or exonerating him, without any clear investigation; I ignore.

The timing may suck. The accusation may well be false. But it has been made and cannot be unmade. Now it's time for process and clarity and truth.

It all sounds very much like a story without any base.

Apart from the DM, Telegraph and Sun hardly anybody ran with it except to report what they were claiming. It has died a death in only two days.

Modern day Czech Republic is a democracy and paid up member of the West and Svetlana Ptacnikova, director of the Czech Security Forces Archive, has made clear; Corbyn was neither an agent, asset, informer nor collaborator with Czechoslovak intelligence.

The best that Gavin Williamson, the Secretary of State for Defence, can come up with is that Corbyn: "Time and time again he has sided with those who want to destroy everything that is great about this country," he said.

"That he met foreign spies is a betrayal of this country. He cannot be trusted."

No facts that he was ever a spy informer then, Gavin, just your bit of spun opinion.

The Daily Mail seems to get great pleasure in publishing a lot of stories that are aimed at running-down Corbyn.
I don't bother to read them. In fact I don't know why I continue to keep buying it - just a bad habit I suppose.

As Suff says, if there is something to it there will be evidence, and if that evidence is produced there is something there otherwise it's a non-story.
Corbyn is chummy with Iranian leaders, hence the Jezbollah nickname, but that doesn't automatically make him an enemy of the country.

AliasAggers wrote:The Daily Mail seems to get great pleasure in publishing a lot of stories that are aimed at running-down Corbyn.
I don't bother to read them. In fact I don't know why I continue to keep buying it - just a bad habit I suppose.

This! The DM is muck-raking, something at which they excel

I'm much more inclined to this Guardian article than any of the others. The Mirror rabidly dismisses the claims (what a surprise), the Independent is slightly more balanced but, generally is putting out the Labour party line.

It was the Sun which broke the story, the Mail just repeated it, along with the Telegraph and the Express.

The question can no longer be "un" asked. As all the Labour party should understand; if Corbyn is innocent then he has absolutely nothing to fear from a full investigation, including the UK security service files.

The problem is I'm pretty much 100% certain Corbyn has a UK security service file from the 80's and I'm pretty certain it documents him as a potential leak. Why? Because he was a spy? Not really, more because he fitted a profile which put him in that risk category.

My suspicion is that Labour want this dead and gone before enough people demand an investigation and his UK file is made public.

Personally, having that file, would not actually change my opinion of him very much unless he had been seen passing information to the Eastern Bloc powers. If he did that, then he does have to live with it.

Do I believe he did that? Not really. Oh I'm sure he thought they were much better than we are. But I doubt he was daft enough to run that risk.

I have heard the refrain so often. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear". That is true in a large part. We all have things we'd rather not share with others. But the point is this. If Labour continue on their path of refusing to even entertain the thought of an investigation to clear Corbyn's name; then I will, forever, believe that he has something to hide over the matter.

Just get it over with, get it out there and then get on with life!

There does not appear to be much in the allegations. May has only half-heartedly claimed that Corbyn should explain himself. Corbyn might well have a file, but so will many politicians of the time and not all of them from the left.

When it comes to investigations where do we start... or stop? Down the years MPs from all parties have met with all sorts of nefarious individuals, sometimes officially, sometimes not. If we were to investigate every one we would be at it every day, every hour, on the hour.

There are times when muck raking is just that: muck raking.

Workingman wrote:There are times when muck raking is just that: muck raking.

And we've never seen that before, aimed at Tory or LD politicians...

With my political views of Corbyn, you might have thought I'd say "Fine just let it go because at a key point it can be brought up again and make people doubt him". However I don't. I honestly believe two things.

a) Corbyn is not actually guilty of what he's accused of
b) That if he does not clear himself, then it will damage the political process and, more importantly, leave an avenue open to damage him at election time.

I think they'll try to just shrug it off and I don't want that precedent set with our MP's. The fact that Corbyn will leave himself open to attack later at a more critical time? Sounds appealing, but it is not worth leaving a precedent that our politicians can rubbish claims of wrongdoing, instead of clearing themselves.

Our politicians should live to a higher standard than that. Even to muck raking they should be able to prove themselves innocent. Otherwise it leaves a doubt.

The Tory press try this tactic when they feel Labour are on the up. They tried it with Michael Foot and he successfully sued The Times over it. They must be feeling on the ropes They tried with Ramsey McDonald in the 1920's and Wilson in the 70s..........Dirty tactics to distract us all from the serious issues affecting this country at the moment.

Talking of which, Mad Max anyone? What a buffoon the Brexit Minister is

Just to add, Raymond Malby anyone? Tory MP and Czech spy - strangely the Daily Mail haven't mentioned him