Vocal Voices

OK, it is only made of liquorice, but it could gum up the works.

Refusing to endorse the UK's EU Withdrawal Bill does not substantially change things legally or politically, but it does drive another wedge between Remainers and Leavers.

That might not be the case with the public, where I believe many Remainers and Leavers see the bill as a sensible way forward. However, our wonderful politicians will see it as another excuse to screw things up; as if they are not screwed up enough already.

Workingman wrote:.... but it does drive another wedge between Remainers and Leavers.

And between Scotland and England. Still angling for a second Indie referendum, the SNP .....

TheOstrich wrote:Still angling for a second Indie referendum, the SNP .....

Give them it.

Let them have Schengen, FOM, the €, no veto, no rebate.

They already are exempt from those, as is the UK, yet they want to join the queue of those begging to get in.

Get in line Jock.

Workingman wrote:

TheOstrich wrote:Still angling for a second Indie referendum, the SNP .....

Give them it.

They won't have one. Nobody, in Scotland, missed the number of Scottish Conservative (and Unionist), MP's at the last election. Nobody missed the fact that in MSPLand the Tories are the second largest party. These were a direct result of half the Yes voters from IndyRef voting to stay OUT of the EU and they voted for a party which has Unionist in it's title. Unlike the rest of the Tories in the UK, Scottish Tories play on the fact that the Conservative Party's full name does actually contain Unionist in the title.

Even amongst those who want to be in the EU, the vast majority of them don't want to leave the UK. Let's face it Remainers and NO voters in Indyref have one thing in common. They don't want to rock the boat. They see leaving the UK as being FAR more damaging than leaving the EU and the majority of them don't want to be in the EU on their own, they want to be in the EU as part of the UK.

After all, the NO campaign spent no limit of effort telling the Scots they needed to vote NO and stay in the UK so they would have a voice in the EU. Bit of a hard sell, now, telling them that they lied and they're better off IN the EU but OUT of the UK....

This is Sturgeon playing her intra country politics in the UK. She's standing up for Scotland against England (make no mistake, when it comes to UK power politics nobody talks about Wales or NI).

I just ignore her. She doesn't have the support and she can't do anything about it. So let her rabbit on. The UK is leaving the EU and she doesn't have the votes to leave the UK.

End of news.

Well why not.

It's been nearly two years since the referendum and there still seems to beno settled plan for leaving the EU. We may as well toss for it!

cromwell wrote:It's been nearly two years since the referendum and there still seems to beno settled plan for leaving the EU.

Well that shows, at least, that we have learned something. We had, after all, a settled plan for working with Adolf.

There is only one settled plan which we could have for leaving the EU. It is called Hard Brexit and almost nobody in power wants that if they can negotiate anything else.

In case they were not clear enough, the EU is determined that they will "negotiate" Brexit. Also that they have a time schedule for this and also that we are, roughly, running on schedule for that.

What is that schedule? Talk and wrangle till there is no time left, go for a vote where everyone, EU states and UK parliament included, have two choices. Approve, or Hard Brexit.

What I find most illuminating is that most people in the UK, even to this day, simply do not understand how the EU works. Think CETA. They spent 7 years negotiating a trade deal and the EU 28 got a choice. Take it or Veto it.

Why on earth would Brexit be any different?

That statement is a Remainer sentiment. It is being fed and cosseted by the EU, who are doing their damndest to derail Brexit. You have to ask yourself why. After all, if we really were that small, insignificant, county they are constantly trying to convince us that we are, then they would just let us go. Wouldn't they? They were very prepared to let Greece go after all...

Patience. 10 months. Then we can sit back and watch the idealistic Italian "alternate" parties smash themselves to pieces on the obdurate rock of EU intransigence.... And Smile...

Here we go... again!

Look, we, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland held a referendum and the result was that we would "Leave" the EU. That's it, that was on the ballot paper. The EU had no say in things - and rightly so.

The rules for a country leaving were already there and they included an option of a transition period of two years; if both sides agreed. However, the rules are in the EU's favour, and why not? They wrote them and are "the Club" and the leaver is the member (who also agreed them) refusing to partake any longer. The EU only has to nominally negotiate in order to protect its remaining members as best it can - as it sees things.

The UK can come up with 1001 proposals, but what it cannot do is demand that the EU accepts them, never mind negotiate them. We are the ones leaving and we are going to have to accept whatever that turns out to be.

Continually slagging off the EU for all our problems will change nothing. It could actually harden the EU's resolve.

Absolutely! We are the ones throwing our toys out of the pram, so why is it up to the EU to make concessions? They don't have to, so it's highly unlikely that they will

I PMPL when I see Brexiteers posting (in other places).

"We won, get over it.". "Time to walk.". "WTO, that's the best option.".

Yes, that really is the same WTO whose rules that the EU, our biggest trading partner, apparently breaks with monotonous regularity and is the only trading nation / bloc to do so.

Workingman wrote:The UK can come up with 1001 proposals, but what it cannot do is demand that the EU accepts them, never mind negotiate them. We are the ones leaving and we are going to have to accept whatever that turns out to be.

Continually slagging off the EU for all our problems will change nothing. It could actually harden the EU's resolve.

I wasn't slagging off the EU. I was slagging off the idea that

a) We should have a plan, exclusively, that defines our Brexit
b) That that idiot in Holyrood has any say about it at all

I was saying exactly the same thing. There is no point in going around saying that "we should have", because we don't have the remit to "have" anything except Hard Brexit.

Anyone who says we "don't have a plan" for a negotiated settlement is, in essence, saying "We haven't had a Hard Brexit". Which is, essentially what it means.

As for Sturgeon? No point in listening to a word she has to say.

a) Scotland doesn't have the competence to negotiate UK wide treaties
b) She doesn't have the votes to do anything about it at all

It's just noise. Best to ignore it.