Vocal Voices

About the ability to charge and run electric vehicles.

I have been banging on about the viability of EV on the current grid for a decade now. In short we do not have the power in our energy infrastructure to replace millions of tons of oil with electricity.

So, today, when I read this article about Ofgem forcing higher prices on EV owners who won't charge them at night, at home. Already public chargers are significantly more costly than home chargers.

Now here is the reality. There are 160,000 EV cars on the roads today, in the UK. There were 26 MILLION cars, in total, on the UK roads in 2015. Expect that to be closer to 30 million in 2018.

If we can't cope with a few hundred thousand cars (apparently it is the growth that is the problem), without significant grid up grades, then how the hell are we going to cope with even 10 million electric cars.

Even worse, what are all the people, like my daughter, going to do about charging? She has a new build, two parking spaces, 50M from her house, with no way to put in a charging station.

Pipe dreams and we are spending billions on this fantasy.

Reports show that road transport consumed 40% of all energy produced in the UK in 2016. Of this 40%, 74% is consumed by road transport.

I don't know what stuff they are smoking in the energy department, but I'm beginning to think I need some too. So I can view the world the way they do.

A-ha! Chickens, home, roost.

We have been in agreement with this for yonks, buit I will throw in a few more things.

Tower blocks with full car parks and no night charging points. Are they to be draped in wires hanging from windows?

Terrace streets or others with only on-street parking. Wil there be cables strewn across the pavements?

Smart meters. Hmm, what happens when there is a sudden or unexpected rise in demand during the night and charging stops? What does the owner do when they find only a 20% charge come the morning?

Will EV owners subsidise my petrol seeing as how I subsidise their electricity?

And don't you just love the optimism?

Analysis by the regulator found that with smart charging, 60% more electric cars could connect to existing electricity networks before they needed to be reinforced.

So once there are 256,000 of these stupid vehicles on the road we, all of us, will have to pay through the nose for extra infrastructure.

I would also like to challenge this:

Charging an electric car overnight at home will cost around £4 for 100 miles of range, depending on the electricity tariff. A similar distance in a petrol car would cost around £17.

Do not forget that the £4 is a subsidised price. A litre of petrol is about £1.29. £17 represents about 13 litres. According to this each litre gives 7.7 miles, that is about 34 mpg. Those figures are from the '70s or modern 3.5 ltr V8 supercharged SUVs.

Modern petrol cars of the Leaf or Prius size would use about 8 litres per 100 mile, or about £10 in fuel.

This is just another way of talking up EVs whilst demonising petrol/diesel vehicles.

My BIL had an accident (lost truck tyre on the M25 which he had no choice but to drive right over) and had to come over to France in a hire car.

He had a Skoda Octavia petrol saloon car. The car averaged 65mpg even at speeds up to 85mph cruising on the Autoroute. At that, he would do the 100 miles at about £9 at my average petrol cost here in London.

I went and checked up a Nissan Leaf for charging times. You get about 30 miles per hour of charge on a home 7kw charger. The average price per kwh in the UK is £0.15. So he was a bit pessimistic on the cost as that works out to £3.50 for the 100 miles.

Sounds good doesn't it. But for one tiny little thing. Fuel, without the crippling taxes on it, would cost about £0.325 per litre. Add the same 5% tax on it that you pay for your electricity (home rate) and your 100 miles costs you £2.38.

Now, as WM says (and I say too), given that we have to double the grid and then double it again, to get EV to replace the 30 odd million personal vehicles which will be on the road then; who believes that the government is going to give up on round 250% taxes on that fuel?

In the end EV can only cost everyone, using electricity, a small fortune. Or, on the other hand, these wonderful chargers will have to separate the car charging cost and add ~250% tax to it.

Smoke and mirrors, pipe dreams and BS.

What is the figure for the EV, to travel 100 miles, with 250% tax on it, instead of 5%?

£13

Nice try guys. I, for one, am not buying it. Unless I fit my own 30kw solar farm and 200kwh of battery backup. Then, once I've laid out some £17,000 (and built it myself), my local travel, in fuel, will cost me nothing.....

Am I sounding a bit sarky? I think I am.

It would make more sense if efforts were made to reduce the number of cars on the roads.
It all seems so unnecessary to me, who was brought up in a different life-style.

Hyundai and VW are joining forces to develop hydrogen powered vehicles. Honda have launched their first hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle and have invested heavily in the technology.

Hydrogen cells can be refuelled much like a petrol car, will not need 10 new power stations and can be taxed in much the same way as petrol is taxed. To me it's a no brainer, hydrogen should be the way that we are going.

Stop it with this talking sense lark.

Don't worry, I'll be back to normal soon!

cromwell wrote:Hydrogen cells can be refuelled much like a petrol car, will not need 10 new power stations and can be taxed in much the same way as petrol is taxed. To me it's a no brainer, hydrogen should be the way that we are going.

Erm, did you do the calculation of the energy required to crack Hydrogen from water????

10 new power stations? More like 100. We'd be better capturing all exhaust fumes, paying to have them "extracted" when we fill up and then locking the carbon into some inert substance we bury. It would be cheaper and easier.

Hydrogen is only feasible with nuclear fusion as the power source and if we had nuclear fusion we would not need hydrogen for anything other than specialist requirements.

There is no easy way out of this. We have trapped ourselves in an energy intensive environment and we're finding out that the only viable way out of it is to generate much, MUCH, more energy.

Oh well. Best stick with petrol then, and buy a horse when it runs out.

Giddyup thar, Trigger!

cromwell wrote:Oh well. Best stick with petrol then, and buy a horse when it runs out.

Giddyup thar, Trigger!

Nope, we need a blend of solutions which fit the situation. For some it will be electric, others it will be hydrogen or Ethanol and for others it will still be fuel, for a while.

There is no single quick fix to this situation. Governments need to recognise that and engage the population in helping to fix it.

Reality, today, is that hydrocarbon fuel is a massive tax source. If we want to remove it we have to push the taxes somewhere else.