Vocal Voices

For the UK right? Wrong.

For the EU. In Juncker's last speech, he pushed out the following:

In his speech, Jean Claude Juncker also made a notably controversial proposal to abolish EU member countries' vetoes on certain tax and foreign policy issues. This is likely to be pounced on by critics of the EU who accuse it of being an undemocratic institution.

Juncker would never have even attempted that with the UK inside the EU. We would have vetoed it in an instant.

May was quite correct that no UK PM could survive partitioning NI from the UK. Even less could a UK PM devolve defence of the UK to anyone in the EU.

Yet why this should be is interesting. It was quite clear with the Lisbon treaty modifications to the Treaty on European Union (TEU), that this is the direction that the EU wishes to go in and that the choice is simple; accept or leave.

I don't expect much to be made of this reality in the UK, but it will be seen elsewhere. I will be asking my French friends what they think about it over the next few years. I shall also be watching to see how the former Eastern bloc countries react. They are at the sharp end and aligned with the US. More and more the EU is not aligned with the US, so it will be one to watch.

If Trump gets a second term, the US could very well exit NATO, depending on how the EU and Turkey behave. I suspect, very strongly, that contingency plans for the Nuclear weapons in Turkey are already in place, if not actually in effect to reduce the arsenal.

Juncker and his cronies may wish for this, but the consequences may rip the EU apart even more than Brexit.

It is quite interesting that the Brexit bonus to the EU may damage the EU from the inside more than the UK from the outside.

Same old guff as we get from our politicians and business leaders.

He stressed a need for legal routes for migration into Europe. "We need skilled migrants," he said.

Really?

Come on, spell it all out. What skills and qualifications are we lacking? Where are they - geographically and by industry sector? Let us have some details so that independent research can be done to see if the truth is being told and also if there is a way to train up our own people to fill the gaps; that is if they actually exist in reality.

Don't just soundbite, give us facts.

As a Remainer this is one thing that annoys me the most. I simply do not believe that Europe, with some of the most technologically advanced economies on the planet, needs to import skills in any great numbers.

However, I also note that he was consistent that the UK cannot 'cherry pick' how it operates with the EU as a third country. 'Consistent' is something our useless lot could do with looking up in a dictionary.

Workingman wrote:As a Remainer this is one thing that annoys me the most. I simply do not believe that Europe, with some of the most technologically advanced economies on the planet, needs to import skills in any great numbers.

Google UN theory of replacement immigration WM. It's a theory that was published circa 2000 and goes a long way to explaining why illegal immigration is being permitted.

Of course, it doesn't take into account widespread youth unemployment that s widespread across southern Europe, but that's theories for you!

I know of the plan, Cromwell, but that does not stop it bugging me that nobody (the unions for example) never challenge the "we need the skills" mantra. It has become accepted as fact.

The other thing, and this is where you Brexiters come in because you are often attacked, is that anybody who says anything about immigration - legal, illegal, bogus, economic - is branded as racist.

I quite agree you cant say anything about immigration without being attacked as being a racist. There was a programme on Sky recently when Yasmin Alibhai-Brown got quite upset about the Brexiteers who were against immigration, and 'even wanted people like me out'. This is a slur on people who voted to leave the EU. Why can't they grasp that it is uncontrolled immigration that is the problem and the lack of action by successive governments to ensure adequate housing, schooling, NHS, transport, job etc to account for the many immigrants who want to come to live and work in this country.

medsec222 wrote: Why can't they grasp........?

Because id does not suit the agendas of the BBC, Equalities Commission, neo-liberals, antifa and so on.

As well as Brexiteers there are plenty of Remainers and those who did not vote in the referendum who are concerned about the level of immigration - all types of immigration. However, rather than give decent answers to our concerns it is much easier to play the racist card and have done with it. Unfortunately for them it does not matter what the Brexit end game is the problem will not go away.

Workingman wrote:

medsec222 wrote:
As well as Brexiteers there are plenty of Remainers and those who did not vote in the referendum who are concerned about the level of immigration

Indeed. The problem now, for those remainders, is that to voice it means they get tarred with the Brexit brush.

Not a comfortable place and a complete loss of a legitimate concern.

Suff wrote:Not a comfortable place and a complete loss of a legitimate concern.

I have no idea what this means.

Remainers have voiced legitimate concerns about immigration and have also been called out as racists. I am comfortable with that as I know that I have never been a racist, and never will be, so I refuse to be a 'victim'.

Workingman wrote:

Suff wrote:Not a comfortable place and a complete loss of a legitimate concern.

I have no idea what this means.

Remainers have voiced legitimate concerns about immigration and have also been called out as racists. I am comfortable with that as I know that I have never been a racist, and never will be, so I refuse to be a 'victim'.

I know you do WM, but a whole swathe of people who believe the UK would be better in the UK, but think immigration is a problem, are automatically branded over Brexit.

Hrdly a comfortable place to be.