Vocal Voices

Technology that does not exist, paperwork and more. Customs declarations incorporated into existing VAT returns online. Simplified customs procedures to deal with cross-border trade Trusted trader-type schemes, but only for big business. Equivalent UK and EU regulations for agricultural produce. Declaring Eire and NI a Common Biosecurity Zone.

Two and a half years to come up with stuff much of which has already been turned down. David Davis, who announced it, knew that full well as he was once our, ahem, negotiator.

It all looks like a ploy so that once May's plan fails the ERG can claim to have offered other options.

Typical Brexiteer deflection.

It's mainly pointing out to me that the government has had 2 years to get a no deal plan ready, and they have failed.

So two useless sets of anti-planners is good for the country?

Is it any wonder that some of us want a pause to proceeding so that we can have some plans - plans based on facts and with plenty of detail?

I can then go with whatever is decided and I suspect so could very many others - from both sides.

Workingman wrote:Is it any wonder that some of us want a pause to proceeding so that we can have some plans - plans based on facts and with plenty of detail?

Pity most of them don't know that to get a pause they have to say pretty please and then wait at the headmasters door to see what the decision is....

Or, knowing that the headmistress and her unruly prefects do not have any plans, they could knock down the door and 'persuade' them to do the right thing - for the good of the whole school, you understand.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Workingman wrote:Or, knowing that the headmistress and her unruly prefects do not have any plans, they could knock down the door and 'persuade' them to do the right thing - for the good of the whole school, you understand.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Wrong school. May has no ability to grant a pause.

I am often amazed at the sheer arrogance of that stance.

If the UK wants a pause, it has to ask nicely and wait for the answer. Which must be unanimous.

You can evict May, install the Lib Dems and that will not change.

Who says so? You? Other Brexiteers?

There is no legal basis for the claim as it has never been tested. Until it is it is only conjecture... from both sides.

Case law will decide the matter (if it is ever attempted) and none so far exists.

There are, obviously, legal opinions, from both sides, and we could all quote them till the cows come home, but it will not change the fact that they are only opinion(s).

The issue, should it ever be tested, will be resolved by judges sitting in the relevant court and not you, me or Uncle Tom.... with all our (biased) opinions.

Workingman wrote:Who says so? You? Other Brexiteers?.

Says Article 50 of the treaty on European Union. Quite clearly.

"Not so", says Lord Kerr, the man who drafted A50, and even that is only an opinion.

OK, quote me one legal judgement from a relevant court regarding the revocation of A50. Impossible because it has never happened.

The issue will have to go to court, the ECJ, as it is the only competent court.

If / when it does Brexit is immediately paused as the case becomes sub judice.

I did not say revoke, I said pause. A50 is quite explicit about extending the time available.

But let us talk about revoke. It will be the EU courts who rule on this EU statute. My question is this. Are you feeling lucky?

Because when, not if, the EU rules against revocation, the UK will be out on its arse.

You can forget precedent in case law and just look at the way the EU courts defend EU statues. To the hilt. Anyone saying "but you didn't say I couldn't" will be told "but I didn't say you could either".

I find it interesting that Lawyers, of all people, can make the child's argument..