Food poverty.

[Workingman]

A committee of MPs has been told that even those in "good" jobs are suffering food poverty; as many as 8.4 million people. As they are not on benefits they are not able to use food banks. They are, however, able to use "pay-as-you-feel" cafes and the new "social supermarkets".

One unnamed teacher claimed she had not had a pay rise in a decade and that she was being forced to choose between "shopping and getting myself and my son to school".

Excuse me for being a bit cynical.

I suspect that many of these "sufferers" live on ready meals, takeaways and do not know how to boil a kettle.

[Kaz]

That's a bit harsh Frank.

[TheOstrich]

I'm unclear (having looked at a couple of websites) just what the criteria is for someone to use a social supermarket or café. Can anyone use them, or do you have to have "vouchers"?

If I understand it correctly, the basic concept of a social supermarket is that they sell - cheaply - surplus foods unsold from normal supermarkets that would otherwise go to waste or landfill. Sort of like your wonky vegetable box. All in all, that can't be a bad thing, I would have thought ………...

[manxie]

I run the stockroom for our local foodbank here and an average week will see up to 18 clients needing help some clients have maybe 3/4 children and a pet/pets, most are in financial trouble because of loss of a job or illness for one earner of the family leaving the one other unable to earn enough to furnish their debts rent,/mortgage,/childcare, whatever.

We are also busier during school holidays when children are at home all day so not getting school; dinners etc.

It is all wrong in this day and age of plenty but literally anyone can be in this situation through no fault of their own.

I have seen that the situation accross in the UK is no different to here.

It is harrowing to see proud hard working people having to ask for food when so much from supermarkets is wasted.

Luckily here most shops have helped out and do so on a regular basis.

Without their help our stockroom would soon be empty.

Please understand it is rarely that a client won't work etc often they are struggling through no fault of their own.

Manxie xx

[Workingman]

That's a bit harsh Frank.

But is it, Kaz?

The people being talked about are those in good jobs. They obviously have the intelligence to get those "good jobs", so what is going wrong?

It cannot be the cost of raw foods, as they have been slowly dropping for a long time. There has to be something going on with how we live our lives.

I have no problem with those helped by the likes of Manxie who are in real poverty, but for those in "good" jobs?

[manxie]

it is when one of them loses their "good job" Frank and they have commitments that outstrip their income and no help for the debts so they then end up in need.

Manxie xx

[Workingman]

Manxie, I understand that, but this is about people who still have "good jobs" and cannot cope.

It is more complex than saying that they cannot afford food.

I just happen to think that they can afford the food, but do not know what to do with it - ready made is so much simpler.

[Suff]

Hmmm, if you are an unqualified teacher on the lowest pay grade, pay £800 per month in rent, the average Band D council tax and the average utilities for electricity, gas and water, you will have £217 per month left before mobile phones, sky, 50" wide TV's, BT internet, the xBox AND PS4 plus their games subscriptions, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, money to get to work and all the plethora of other stuff people see as absolute essentials.

Not a lot at that. If you are a qualified teacher on the minimum band, that goes up to around £600 per month. If you are at the top of the main pay band (standard teacher, not enhanced pay grades), that goes up to £1200 per month.

I don't know where your sympathy meter sits? Mr S and I lived for 3 years on a main teacher's salary (mid not top as Mrs S had been out of the classroom for 7 years), me in college, 3 children at home and paying a mortgage at 12.5%. I can assure you we never looked anywhere near a food bank. Oh and we had both a dog and a cat.

It wasn't that much better when I started working again in IT, 5 years after leaving the Army, for £500 a year less than an Army technical private's pay. Or, to put it another way, less than half of Mrs S' teachers pay.

Then again we can both cook, know how to budget for food and other necessities and Mrs S could drive to work and back for a week on £5 worth of fuel.

Today is a very different matter. I spend approximately £30,000 in accommodation, flights home, travel to work and daily food. I haven't calculated it out in a while. It shouldn't be a surprise.

[Kaz]

Manxie says it all, for me xxxxx

Frank when even people in "good jobs" are struggling, surely that speaks volumes.

[cromwell]

You are a good man Manxie.

I can see both sides. I think there is a political agenda being pushed (our local abysmal Look North program is always pushing it) about the Tory cuts and foodbanks.

But yes, it is easy to see how some people fall into debt and poverty. Family break up and job loss would be two big causes I would imagine.

People's attitudes have become hardened though. When my wife's 80 year old relatives see their unmarried next door neighbour in a council house getting "the help that she needs" which includes toys for the children, her hedge cut by the council, a skip provided for the rubbish that she throws out of the kitchen window into the back garden (not joking), then people who have played a straight bat all their lives get fed up with that. Or when the people across the street grow and sell marijuana without interference.

When people like that hear about the poor and unfortunate they are less likely to believe it, even though the stories may be genuine, because they have seen the system abused by the feckless.

I go to a club where most of the members are white, male, working class and are aged above 45. Their attitude towards people like the spice heads who stagger around Barnsley town centre is considerably harder than any politician's. These are men especialy the older end, who genuinely did grow up in a time of real austerity - the 1950's and yes, part of the 1960's as well - who never had anything handed to them. Who worked on building sites, down pits, as fitters, joiners, engineers and so on.

Nobody ever gave them anything; and their attitude to poverty is coloured by their experience of the "professionally" poor, if you like.

We aren't as compassionate towards the genuinely unfortunate as we should be; but maybe the lead swingers, skivers and career dole hounds are to blame for that?