Vocal Voices

The other day we, apparently, had an agreement. or so we were told, on a draft text of an agreement.

Today we have had two ministerial, two junior ministerial, and two PPS resignations over that 'agreement'. We have also had JRM officially handing in his letter to the 1922 Committee.

We are told that there could (will) be further resignations and that JRM's action will trigger further letters.

Even the most ardent Btrexiter cannot spin this as anything but a disaster for the country, especially as May's plan is nothing like the (many versions of) Brexit they wanted.

Brexit is turning out to be the biggest sh1tfest in history.

Workingman wrote:
Brexit is turning out to be the biggest sh1tfest in history.

Ah but you might end up with blue passports (which will be made in the EU) - it would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so serious. I can't understand why the UK fell for the jingoist BS peddled by the Leave campaign.

Osc wrote:I can't understand why the UK fell for the jingoist BS peddled by the Leave campaign.

Osc, it's because we are blithering idiots. We believe in unicorns, mermaids, elves, sprites, faeries and hobgoblins.

Reality plays no part in our live, unless you are a Remainer

Workingman wrote:Brexit is turning out to be the biggest sh1tfest in history.

Definition: EU Membership

The European Union (EU) consists of 28 member states. Each member state is party to the founding treaties of the union and thereby subject to the privileges and obligations of membership. Unlike members of most international organisations, the member states of the EU are subjected to binding laws in exchange for representation within the common legislative and judicial institutions.

Definition: Brexit

Here you will get all kinds of BS on the web but no clear answer, but this is what it boils down to.

Brexit stands for: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will no longer be a member state of the European Union. The UK will no longer be party to the founding treaties of the Union and will no longer be "automatically" subject to binding laws in exchange for representation within the common legislative and judicial institutions

Definintion: The Brexit Deal

Again there is a whole world of BS about "the deal" with the most commonly held view being that Brexit IS the deal and that if they stop the deal, they will stop Brexit.

The Brexit Deal, associated with the UK's exit from the European Union is nothing more than an agreement on the future trade and movement of people between the UK and the EU. This is a Treaty being signed to continue relations between the United Kingdom (a fully sovereign state) and the European Union (a fully sovereign state for trade and movement of people).

Brexit is not The Deal and The Deal is not Brexit.

Brexit is happening on the 29th march 2019. The Deal? It will or won't happen, it is not overly important in the grand scheme of things apart from the ability of the UK to emerge from the suffocating embrace of EU trade laws. This will change over time as our governments change.

Brexit is not turning out to be the biggest sh1tfest in history. The histrionics of the remain and the business over the continuance of trade, post Brexit, are what is a complete fiasco.

That, post Brexit, we can fix.

If you were to say that Florida leaving the US and the trading relationships between a newly independent Florida and the remainder of the US, were the same thing, any American would be looking to book you into a sanatorium. Why people can't see that there is no difference at all with the UK leaving the EU is the whole problem here.

People believe the EU is not a nation state like the US.

Those people need to get over themselves and learn.

Hole: keep digging.

And shout, shout louder, keep digging, you know it makes (no) sense.

I have given up on what Brexit means, I think a lot of Brexiters have also given up on what it means. We are heading for a 'something, but a something nobody voted for.

History will not look kindly on what Brexit meant.

We can stop it, but nobody has the guts to do so.

Workingman wrote:We can stop it, but nobody has the guts to do so.

No! Not enough people want to and if we do too many will punish everyone for doing so.

A reality everyone but the politicians seem to have forgotten.

Question: Is the deal on the table one you and 100% of Brexiters would have voted for at the outset?

I know that polls are rubbish when they do not agree with an individual's thinking, but the latest say that ~55% think Brexit should stop. The figure is roughly the same as those who want Ref2.

The latest is that Gove might quit, despite being offered the Brexit minister's job. Mordaunt is also on watch.

Face up to it and admit that things are not going well.

Osc wrote:

Workingman wrote:
Brexit is turning out to be the biggest sh1tfest in history.

Ah but you might end up with blue passports (which will be made in the EU) - it would be hysterically funny if it wasn't so serious. I can't understand why the UK fell for the jingoist BS peddled by the Leave campaign.

Neither can I Osc

Osc wrote:I can't understand why the UK fell for the jingoist BS peddled by the Leave campaign.

Because we didn't. Some people might have been silly enough to believe that we would have £350 million a week extra, but not me and not a lot of others either.

The only thing the UK media ever mentions re the EU is the economic side. It is the only thing they ever have mentioned. Even today if you watch our TV, the political aspect of the EU is never mentioned, and I mean never. I hope it's different in Ireland and other countries.

The key issue for me is that EU is considerably about the diminution of democratic power and the rise of unelected beaurocratic power. The EU commission deciding which subject the MEP's are allowed to vote on, for instance. I can't remember the BBC or Sky ever majoring on that fact for instance. This fact has gone unmentioned, has been denied, has been lied about by the British political class for more than forty years.

What about the proposals to distribute "asylum seekers" around Europe? Virtually unmentioned on the broadcast media.

What about the proposals for an EU army, so long denied by the likes of Nick Clegg? Silence.

What about the proposals for tax harmonisation across Europe? Silence again.

Why do the EU political classes want virtual open borders? Because big business wants it? Because it's easier for their lorries to cross national borders? Yes. Because it gives them an unlimited supply of cheap labour? Maybe. Because it gives them a bigger internal market for their goods? Maybe, but I know one thing - we'll never have an honest debate on the subject on our remainer dominated tv stations.

It's about a lot more than a slogan on the side of a bus Osc, much as the remain side in the UK would like it not to be.

I agree entirely with you Cromwell. It always has been and it always will be about sovereignty. I am not sure if anyone was fooled by a slogan on the back of a bus. This is just something that has been whipped up by the remainers. Most leavers interpreted the slogan as there will be more money to spend at home once we leave the EU.