I was just wondering

[cromwell]

Will the Corona virus crisis lead to a comeback for Socialism?
After all it isn't the Heads of Health Trusts who are working in Intensive Care units, in operating theatres or driving ambulances. It's not Chief Constables or PCC's out there arresting people and it's not the leaders of Councils who are emptying the bins.
This country has been kept going by ordinary people; that has been very evident.
I suppose one counter argument is that there aren't any actual workers as Labour MP's any more.
But this crisis has at least exposed the myth of the wonderfulness of the managemant classes. Some good ones yes; but way too many careerists who are actually neither use nor ornament.

[Workingman]

Funny you should ask.

I am having a right old ding-dong with my MP, West Yorks Police, Leeds City Council and my three local councillors regarding the closure of local park car parks.

There response so far is one of "We have made the rule and it is here to stay so go away little man we have other things to do." It is typical of wonks who are never, ever, wrong. I think that we will see major changes once this Covid thing washes out of the system. People will look at these "Do as I say" types and think some changes might be needed.

I think the volunteering action has been a catalyst so far. People are asking "Who is looking out for me?" and the answer is "We are" with "we" being the ordinary person in the streets and not the politicians... at any level.

[cromwell]

It is typical of wonks who are never, ever, wrong.

The policy is never wrong! Only the implementation of the policy. Which is done by the lower orders.
Ergo, management can never be wrong.
Of course situations change and therefore the policy may change in time to reflect that, but the policy in operation at any one time is never wrong, ever.

[Kaz]

We can but hope!

[TheOstrich]

There seems to be general concern arising about the erosion of civil liberties, and what will happen once this finishes - what powers will be relaxed and which retained. I take your point about community spirit and people power, I think there is an equal danger that we will move towards a more authoritarian state. Could be interesting times.

I have no real problem with the Derbyshire Police drones as such - after all, in Spain I think it was, their drones follow you down the street whilst broadcasting dire threats to you. We haven't reached that stage yet, but especially here in the UK, it's the prospect of increasingly more authoritarian police and bureaucrats that are more worrying.

[cromwell]

[list=][/list]

" It is typical of wonks who are never, ever, wrong. I think that we will see major changes once this Covid thing washes out of the system. People will look at these "Do as I say" types and think some changes might be needed.

Just bumping this because of a story I read on the Mail website about the Quango, Public Health England.
They have 246 staff on six figure salaries but apparently couldn't organise the proverbial trip to the brewery. This is one reason why testing is such a shambles.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tcats.html

The state of public sector management is a disgrace. That bonfire of the Quangos should have been lit.

[Suff]

Socialism doesn't stand a chance. People will be bombarded with the message that if they don't support a business friendly government, then the country will go to the crapper.

It is not entirely untrue either which will make things difficult.

My problem is that this situation has to be paid for some way or another and capitalistic businesses are going to do their level best to make sure it is paid down in the shortest possible time.

Socialism? Dark stain under the heel of the boot of recovery. This is no longer the aftermath of WW2 where there was a distinct working class with a radio, paid weekly, rent and very little in the way of savings. Even those on benefits have a better standard of living than those of the working class at the end of WW2. As for those working class people with their personal pensions, own home, ISA's? How do they associate themselves with a socialist message designed for a society long gone.

So I won't hold my breath.

[Workingman]

Oh there's still a working class. 15.5m on or below 2/3 the average wage out of 32.4 million employed ~ half, with 8.5m below £15k. Not much scope for pensions or ISAs for those people. 37% of households do not own a home and of the 63% that do many are ex council or one the thousands of terraced houses up and down the land - the cheap stuff. Owning a home does not mean "well off" and it certainly does not make the owner a capitalist or Conservative supporter.

Socialism certainly has changed over the years, and a lot of it is now socialism with a small 's'. We could call it societyism, as opposed to meism. Most of those who support it remember that the "Dark Stain" gave them the welfare state, pensions, and the NHS. Tories take them for granted at their peril. They are in power on borrowed votes loaned to them on one issue, it will not take much for those votes, and more, to be taken back.

[Suff]

True WM, but the average wage is now £36.5k. Lots of scope to be below the average wage and invest in pension, ISA's and a future.

As I recall it was the Liberals that gave the people the pension in their Social and welfare reforms from 1906 to 1914. Including unemployment and sick pay. Labour may have created the NHS and a stronger welfare state, but the Liberals started it. For some reason the Liberals never seem to hit the radar as Socialists. Some level of irony there.

I tend to feel that with Blair gone and the Unions determined to get a grip on the Labour party again, they lose the mainstream appeal of Socialism in a modern technological world..

It's not a vote turner and we are a far cry from the days of Bevan. When the working class didn't have cars, televisions, fridges, freezers, telephones or even washing machines. They probably had a bicycle or two though. Today our 11m not contributing to the economy have a life which is often considered "rich" to may places in the world. It is the very bottom of the working ladder and the most disadvantaged on universal credit, in which we might find that Socialist vote.

[Workingman]

The average wage from the latest figures is £30,420 pa. About half the population is on or below 2/3 that = £20.280, with about half of those (55%) on less than £15k. No matter how frugally you live there is not much scope for a reasonable pension pot or decent ISA, if any, from those sorts of wages.

OK I was wrong about some of the welfare state stuff, but it did come from social liberalism, so I was nearly right.

We cannot know what will be a vote turner, not yet, and it's a bit 'out there' comparing today with yesteryear or other countries. The working class of today can only go with what they are living and compare that with the rest of society, and let's not forget that some in other classes also like and / or wouldn't mind socialism - small 's' again.