Vocal Voices

The Scottish government has published draft legislation for IndyRef2 to be held in the first half of the new parliament following the elections.

Polls show that the SNP and Greens will get in again and also that independence has a narrow lead so it would probably pass. Westminster has a blocking vote and even Sturgeon recognises that is needed to change for the referendum to be legal, but she has not ruled out going to some court (?) to settle the question of whether Holyrood could legislate for a legal referendum without Westminster's backing.

The irony of ironies is that if Scotland does become "independent" it will immediately apply to join the Evil Empire, sorry, the EU - some independence that would be!

My family, on grandfather's side, is from Ayrshire, though most of my cousins now live in the Bathgate and Livingston areas. They are "remainers" in both senses - for the Union and for the EU, and being Labour through and through it's a tough call for them. I suspect that goes for many other Scots.

I get the feeling, from an English perspective, that if the Scots want to "Foxtrot Oscar" so be it. My view is for the Union, but good luck to them; others are not being so kind.

I would be very sad to see the Scots go Frank. Alongside Wales and Northern Ireland they are part and parcel of the United Kingdom, there is a bond, and I would hate to see it broken. However, you cant force the Scots to stay if they truly want to be independent, as the resentment and fall out would inevitably have a negative impact on the rest of the UK. If the SNP want to go for another referendum then I do think that the Scottish Parliament should foot the bill, as if they lost by a narrow margin yet again, they could call for a re-run a year or two later, and I don't see why the rest of the UK should bear the cost.

medsec222 wrote:I would be very sad to see the Scots go Frank.

So would I, but I would not stop them.

They could try in every parliament if they wanted to, but once there is a break that's when the problems start.

Who gets what of the army, navy and air force? How many UK dedicated civil servants will need to relocate, and how many will want to? Who patrols the skies and seas? Which currency will be used? Who controls whichever central bank, and many more?

It can be done, but it will not be easy.

Workingman wrote:It can be done, but it will not be easy.

Nothing worthwhile ever is.

The question in my mind is whether the SNP truly believe that Scotland is more independent in the EU, or whether they just hate only having a 10% representation in Westminster where the English can, if they wish, simply override the Scots?

I have my own views on that but I also no longer have a vote on it.

For me either way is viable for Scotland but which is better? That comes down to a point of view.

Let the (in)fighting commence!

I see that Kenny MacAskill has quit the SNP and joined Alba giving it its first MP in Westminster. The SNP are outraged and are calling for a by-election, and I don't blame them, in principle.

I might be wrong, but I really can see Alba doing damage to the SNP more than any other party, though not to independence. I can also see Scotland heading for a grand coalition with one main party and two or more smaller ones on the periphery.

Time to get the popcorn in - lots of it.

And now Neale Hanvey has done the same.

Oh dear?

More popcorn required.

Reality of the damage done to Sturgeon over her attempt to bury Salmond once he had dropped from the limelight.

It's a strange game to play.

Enhance the independence thing by hurting the major party that promotes it. Take seats from the SNP as a government, and hurt them, but at the same time promote the IndyRef2.

It might work.

It's such a shame the rest of the Union doesn't get a vote: the Scots would be gone yesterday. Why? Because many Scots cannot differentiate between Westminster - the UK and English parliament - and the people. We are not one and the same and many of us are partially with you. But, we are sick and tired of being tarred with the same brush. "Go your own way" sang Fleetwood Mac.

Go on, We will not stop you, and good luck with your new found "freedom" and entry into the EU. Have happy times patrolling the 96 mile border if we English can't be arsed. Oh, and all of Scotland's customs free goods from the EU will have to arrive by sea or air at Scottish ports. No overland customs free corridors. Ooops!

We English can be real bastards when we want to be.

Workingman wrote:We English can be real bastards when we want to be.

As can everyone. Hardline Scots Nats are no less bastards on this subject.

I've never challenged the fact that the remainder of Great Britain and the UK, should Scotland choose to separate, could put Scotland behind a wall and force them into living a life without the benefits of the UK. It is their right, possibly a duty, given the position of hardline Nats.

I get the bit about differentiating between governments who do what is best for themselves and the people in general. Then again xenophobic people exist everywhere, including Scotland. Witness the kid sitting next to me in Italy, on our school skiing trip, refusing to eat the wonderful lasagne because he didn't "eat this foreign muck". Said in a strong Lincolnshire accent.

It may seem strange to set up a second independence party and still promote Indyref2. However, if you look at it from a different perspective, if Alba win enough seats to be needed to give the SNP a majority in parliament to get the Indyref2 bill through; the price will be Sturgeon's head.

For Salmond and all those who are unhappy with Sturgeon, that will be worth having Alba. Because Nats can't get a vote on getting rid of Sturgeon, but Alba gives them the ability to vote against Sturgeon without voting against Indyref2. Because of PR, all those votes will wind up as Indyref2 votes and will not split the vote in independence. Something quite different from first past the post UK elections.

Will we need to show our passport to go to Scotland?

What happens to Scotch Whisky? Must replenish my stocks.