The US government has set an EV target

[Suff]

Biden invited Auto manufacturers to the white house to tell them they needed to be producing 50% of their vehicles as EV's by 2030.

He also invited the president of the United Auto workers.

He didn't invite Tesla.....

Below is a youtube video link about this thing. It is hard hitting and straight speaking and in good aussie fashion, expletive stocked.

It delves into the whole situation. If you have 20 minutes to spare have a view. Feel free to fast forward through the crypto and other adverts.
It starts with Sandy Munro (Ex chief engineer of Ford), explaining why 2030 is too late.
The author of the video gives his view as to why 2028 is too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1z089bt36g

[Workingman]

Oh gosh I do love these fact free advertainments on Comedy Central. It didn't delve it was just a fanboy rant.

And get the irony.... his tube is promoting stocks... you know, those things to drive up the value of companies making more and more stuff for us to consume at an even greater rate, thus saving the planet. Profit and GDP are Gods. What a forkwit!

No more comments from me, I'm outa here. CBA with this 5hit any more.

[Suff]

You missed the point.

United auto workers Union companies are not transitioning to EV, non union companies are.

The president holds a media fest about transition to EV pushing Union in huge letters, yet these companies are at serious risk of failing because they won't transition.

All because the union pays millions in campaign fees.

It is beyond satire, it is pure politics.

[cromwell]

Well, Sleepy Joe can suggest what he wants but he will face a lot of opposition. There are a lot of vested interests in the States.
Plus very probably the US government will be just as ineffective as our is in the transition.
I don't know if you caught this Suff, but the Transport Select Committee is wondering if the national grid will cope with the move to EV's?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... times.html

Call me nit picking but I would have thought they should have considered this prior to banning the sale of ice cars from 2030. In my view that deadline won't be met.

[Suff]

I did Cromwell.

So the Grid produced a position paper for the 2050 goal with 4 differing options. Only one of those options doesn't produce enough power for the EV's.

In fact the real issue for the grid is home heating and business gas. It is in no way ready for transition from those and EV charging will be a minor pimple on the elephant's arse compared to those monsters.

As for opposition? There are 1m pre orders for the Tesla cybertruck. Even if 50% of them turn out to be simple whim's, that will consume the entire Tesla cybertruck factory for 2.5 years. Also the "pundits" (idiots who watch the market), keep on going on about Demand for Tesla vehicles growing. Morons, it is supply that is growing, the demand has been hundreds of times supply, now it is dozens of times supply and it will drop to "only" 5 or 6 times supply by around 2025.

There is Massive demand for EV's. Not least because overall they are cheaper to run, because they have no areas where they cannot go and because they are the next new thing. Fossil burners? So 1900's.

VW have experimented with sub £30,000 EV models (after subsidies). They are struggling to sell them (outside of to dealers). Not because demand for EV is low, but because demand for also ran, second rate, poorly thought out EV designs, is low.

Tesla has, for 2 years now, been mooting a $25,000 vehicle. Just like the $35,000 Model 3, Tesla will deliver it. If only in very limited trim. But when it does, expect demand to exceed supply many times over.

[Suff]

Just as a side point Cromwell, I was thinking about your comment on the power of Tesla motors and the fact that it is far too high.

The ID.3 is significantly less efficient to run than a Tesla model 3 or model Y. Or, in fact, a Model S. Only the Model X is about equivalent and that is a SUV style monster that weighs 4 tons.

There is one massive difference between the Tesla models (all of them) and the VW range. Simply put the VW range has a gearbox.

This is not something you really think about given that we're used to more gears == Good as it gives us all the torque and performance we need. However it is the way incumbents attempt to put in a lower powered motor and try to sell it as a "better value" vehicle just like they have always done with FF cars.

The thing is this. With an EV, having the "power" of 350hp does not cost any more energy if you don't "use" 350hp. But if you only have 150hp you MUST have a gearbox because you don't have enough power to accelerate any more than a FF car does. In fact the VW range suffers from motorway overtaking because of this. It only has One gear. Think 1st to overdrive. They give figures in 0-50km/h. Not 0-100. There is a reason for this, they only have one gear. But this also means that their vehicles are "significantly" less efficient when they are spinning the motor but going 1/4 of the distance.

Tesla's, on the other hand, have so much power that they can accelerate in every scenario at the speed the driver requires. They have masses of power. But you only need to use what you need. You don't have to go blasting around like an adolescent at warp speed, you can drive normally. It doesn't cost you anything and, in fact, it costs you far less when you touch the accelerator to pass something, rather than sit there white knuckled as your ID.3 attempts to overtake in overdrive when you are doing 40mph.

The incumbents are doing what they always do. Trying to control the narrative, sell models they can cheese pare for prices and make people believe they are getting something better for a lower price or something much more for a LOT more money.

Pure EV manufacturers do not have these illusions. They sell performance, power and efficiency. With electricity the better the performance and power for the same power draw, the further the vehicle drives before charging. So one is a consequence of the other.

In this the incumbents are going to shoot themselves in the foot. As pure EV manufactured vehicles start to flood the market, the also ran re-tread vehicles manufactured by companies who simply can't "get it", will be seen for what they are. They will also become unpopular. Ford, GM, Stellantis, they are acting like the 800lb gorilla's in the room of EV. They are most decidedly not. Tesla is the 800lb gorilla in the EV room just like SpaceX is the 800lb gorilla in the space business. Companies who do not recognise this are going to the wall and the little dog and pony show put on by Biden and his Union pals is not going to change this.

This is what the "fanboy" was talking about. It doesn't matter how much he loves Tesla. The writing is on the wall for everyone to read. Not my problem if most people have their hand's over their eye's, headphones on full and are humming as loud as they can.

[cromwell]

So basically the Tesla power is like a big V8 that has so much torque you can move off in any gear or accelerate from any speed?

[Suff]

That's it.

But unlike a huge V8, driving a Tesla at 30mph does not cost any more "fuel" than driving the same car with a 150bhp engine. Simply put, it draws the power it needs and uses it as efficiently as it can.

This makes the Tesla extremely efficient. The recent teardown of the VW motor shows some extremely advanced engineering in the motor design. However by deciding to try and match the electric motor to existing FF BHP, requires a gearbox and this gearbox makes it significantly less efficient.

This attitude of "big is bad or excessive" for EV motors is just that. A legacy attitude. Tesla has decided that a normal power output is somewhere around 320bhp or a bit more. Yes they do more power, all the way up to 1,000 bhp, but the standard car is sized to the most efficient use.

OK it gets you to 60mph in 5.6 seconds if you want to jump on the loud pedal, but truthfully how many people actually do that more than a few times. Yes it makes the overall journey easier especially, let us say, something like the northern two way sections of the A1. Where overtaking is more like a motorcycle where your opportunities are more because the power is on tap if you need it.

But making your EV less efficient because you want to try and hammer the square peg into a very round hole, just because you have other models and a branding theme, is not very clever. Owners will pick up on this over time and it will damage sales. Already the Chinese are rejecting the ID.3 and ID.4 because of the extremely poor set of features and infotainment. In short the incumbents are still in "£1,000 for a really good stereo" mode and the EV creators are into extreme tech to provide allure.

This is why the dog and pony show set up by Biden is met with extreme derision.

If you look at China's Nio, it has decided to team with Nvidia and use processors which are 60% faster than Tesla's HW3.0 self driving computer. They are also going to use Twice as many of them!

Contrast the VW ID computers and software. They have just about enough power to run the indicators and the aircon, if you talk to it it simply craps out and takes half an hour (or days), to recover. Satnav? Disaster. Self drive? It couldn't self drive round a scalextric track!