Vocal Voices

Certainly if troops withdraw.

For very little immediate extra cost to the Russian economy - the tanks, planes, ships and troops are already paid for - he has screwed us over.

The Western spivs, who make money from nothing, got spooked and pushed up the prices of gas and crude oil to Russia's benefit. That in turn pushed up prices in the West and governments have had to react on the back of the already costly economic recovery from the pandemic. Ukraine and NATO now know that it will never be allowed to join. The best it can hope for is some sort of associate membership where it might get arms but will not be allowed to take part in joint drills and exercises nor be covered by the umbrella. Russia can now withdraw from the fieldheads it has created and leave them in cheap care and maintenance for use later: if needed. And Europe, collectively, now knows that it probably will have to spend more, a lot more, on defence.

Yes, he might still attack, but he has put down markers and Western governments know it.

The least effective thing Putin could have done was to attach.

Everyone assumes the guy is an idiot. He wouldn't have done this with Trump in the seat.

He started it when Obama and Trump were in charge so he would have done it anyway.

After Crimea (2014), under Obama, Trump was a busted flush internationally and the worst president in US history. Putin knew it, so he acted.

Biden is not much better as a POTUS, but at least he hides his "nut job" credentials better. Putin knows it hence the present situation.

Do you think that Putin never intended to invade? That he was winding us up?
Maybe as a test of Western resolve and unity, to see how we would react?

Different orders of magnitude and different actions. Obama used sanctions because Russia was physically active. Trump ordered a Nato exercise in Ukraine, reducing the chance of action. Biden snoozed until it became so obvious someone had to wake him up.

Putin in wins all round because it is clear now that the Ukraine will not join Nato.

cromwell wrote:Do you think that Putin never intended to invade? That he was winding us up?
Maybe as a test of Western resolve and unity, to see how we would react?

Playing cat and mouse I think very clever and devious is putin

cromwell wrote:Do you think that Putin never intended to invade? That he was winding us up?
Maybe as a test of Western resolve and unity, to see how we would react?

Or to see how much of a wedge he could drive between the EU and the US.