Clearly Nissan didn't get the memo

[Suff]

That EV sales are dropping.

They are building a new battery factory and will build a 2 new EV models in Sunderland. A second battery factory will be built by a partner for them. This is on top of the existing battery factory.

The thing is they have the real stats. Their ICE sales are falling and other companies are taking their business with EV's.

Tata has also committed to a battery factory for JLR, although that is mostly to do with the EU rule changes in January. Ditto BMW for their eMini.

[Workingman]

So, the government mandates that there will be no new ICE cars and vans from 2035 and motor manufacturers start making plans to produce EVs to replace the banned ones by that time.

Surprised? No! They either obey the law or go out of business.

And let us not forget that from January 2024, only a few months away, the government has mandated that zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) will have to hit annual sales targets of 22% for cars and 10% for vans. Failure to hit the target will mean fines of £15,000 per car and £9,000 per van sold under the targets.

It's the Henry Ford system - you can have any colour you want so long as it is black. Choice, for consumers and manufacturers alike, is going out of the window.

[Suff]

[quote="Workingman"
And let us not forget that from January 2024, only a few months away, the government has mandated that zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) will have to hit annual sales targets of 22% for cars and 10% for vans. Failure to hit the target will mean fines of £15,000 per car and £9,000 per van sold under the targets.[/quote]

I didn't forget. But as they already hit 23%, that number is not too big an issue. For cars at least.

The thing is there have been a lot of articles in the news touting that EV demand is just not there. Yet the numbers belie the rhetoric and the moves by vehicle manufacturers also.

[Workingman]

I didn't forget. But as they already hit 23%, that number is not too big an issue. For cars at least.

No, nor did you forget to over-egg the figures by 6.5% to suit your argument. The trend for EV car sales in 2023 is flat and the average sales volume is 16.5%.



The moves by the motor manufacturers (and consumers) have been forced on them by the law, they are not voluntary nor market led.

[Suff]

The figures were from earlier in the year. But we haven't had Nov/December yet.

There are some specific demographics around these numbers but we can wait till the end of the year for them. The reason is obvious if you know.

[Workingman]

The figures are from October just gone and produced in November, there is a time lag. November and December sales are going to have to be phenomenally high to hit your made up and fictitious 23% of car sales.

Yes, we can wait... for reality to kick in.

Then comes Jan 2024. Nobody from government can tell us how they will "force" 22% of buyers to go EV. If Bob doesn't want to part with his money for a Tonka Toy it's his choice. Same for Jane. And yet their freedom of choice to not buy EV could cost manufacturers £15,000 a go.

Never mind democracy, you zealots are going to force your ideology on us no matter what. Bob, Jane, the rest of us and the manufacturers can go to Hell just so long as your shares in EV producers keep on rising and your dividends get paid.

[Suff]

Me, I'm not forcing anything on anybody nor have I campaigned to do so.

I am absolutely 100% "give choice" and let people choose. I get a lot of crap for it from the environmental groups.

The main issue right now is that manufacturers either sell you crap for a moderate price or something vaguely viable for an astronomical price. When VW tired to push it's prices up to the level of a Tesla they found people wouldn't buy them. Because they simply don't compare. Don't even think about China, their EV sales there are frighteningly low and China is the largest EV market in the world today.

However just to give you a view on what is going on. This is from X.

MDouglas
@douglas58359
Excerpt of an interview in the Austrian "Kleine Zeitung", with CEO Thomas Schäfer / VW Passenger cars :

"...However, the volumes of combustion engines are declining so sharply that almost no new project is profitable anymore.... It is pointless to invest billions for a dwindling volume...."

If the volumes of combustion engines are declining so sharply as VW says,they should be selling more BEV. This is not the case so clearly they have a big demand problem! Looks like a "Meltdown" in progress

Alex

@alex_avoigt
·
Nov 23
Cavallo continued,
'The combustion engine business in China is still going well. "But if we only look at our e-cars, it's so frightening that we have to catch up as quickly as possible"'

Cavallo is the Works Council Chair for VW.

[Workingman]

The main issue is not that manufacturers can sell us crap, but that in the future they will attempt to sell us more crap that we cannot afford and do not need.

I so look forward to a world of emissions-free electric tractors, combined harvesters, super tankers, trans-continental aircraft, ferries, trains, it's not going to happen. Industry produces all the crap we do not need because it is essential for the global economy's never ending growth, and that is what is destroying us. We just buy in and suck it up.

EVs will help us not one bit.

[cruiser2]

I nw have a hybrid car which I hope will last my life. I do not want to buy another one as I do not go very farin it.

I would only buy an EV car if I was forced to have one by law.
A couple down the crescent have one. She is a nurse and works at one of the hospitals in Liverpool. Evidently she got a subsidy from the NHS whenit was bought and it is cheaper
to use for the trip to work than the previous petrol car.

[Kaz]

Our new car is a hybrid - best of both worlds.