All looking up in the land of the free

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All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Suff » 19 Jul 2013, 10:34

Or Not!

We are conditioned to think that the US is doing so much better than the UK. The Eurozone is doing so much better than the UK. Everyone down to a Tongan leather worker is doing sooooooooo much better than the UK.

Well, let me go on record stating that the US is NOT as good as it might seem. Certainly Detroit is in a mess and it is in no way the only US city in that state. The Eurozone is a shambles economically and the only areas truly outperforming the UK right now are in Asia and the emerging economies.

But we have a BAAAADDDD coalition with a bunch of "Rich Boys" who "Know Nothing" at the helm and the UK is "Going to the dogs".

Or can I re-write that with a seasoning of reality.

The UK is slowly bumping along the top of a massive peak in it's economy. It's I growing but slowly and it's debt legacy growing less than the economy. Our "Rich Boys" have managed to pull us back from the brink without dumping the economy in the toilet and, generally, whilst some standards are slipping, things are far, far, better than they could have been.

Economic indicators are Up.
The double dip never happened. That was a figment of the ONS' imagination.
Yes we have issues, but we are working through them.

But NO, let's write about how BAD it is, because that sells papers.

The tory press hate the Lib Dems, so they pull the government down. The Labour papers hate the Tories so they pull the government down. The Lib Dem papers only like themselves and don't like being subservient so they pull the government down.

How about we pull Britain UP instead?

Or we will hand it to Miliband on a plate and that is even more dangerous than Gormless Gordon.....
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Workingman » 19 Jul 2013, 11:12

Suff wrote:.... things are far, far, better than they could have been.

Ain't that the truth, but they could also be far, far better than they are.

As the Taxpayers Alliance often points out there are huge inefficiencies and waste in government. The "Bonfire of the Quangos" turned out to be little more than a disposable lighter. The banks have not been brought into line in any meaningful way. Tax loopholes for the super rich and corporations are still wide open.

The whole thing might be a work in progress, but it is in the slow lane. A lot more could have been one, and a lot sooner.
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Suff » 19 Jul 2013, 11:34

when I went back to college, one of my subjects was economics.

We were given a computer economic model of the UK at the end of the 1970's. We had to manage that economy for a decade and we had to also manage in the EEC 15% VAT harmonisation too.

The first time I went through that process I was unsure, I made very small corrections, I thought about what I was doing and the possible consequences of what I was planning to do and made very small changes to the whole.

At the end of the decade I had weathered every crisis they threw at me, had a balanced budget and an economy with growth and excellent stability.

Then I played it again and again and again and again. Each time I knew what I had done and what the consequences were. But I did "more" because I "knew" how it worked.

Never again did I reach that balanced budget and that strong economy. I always overcooked the system in one way or another and was always having to take radical action to correct some bubble or other.

It was ingrained into me, very early, that with economies the only way is Very slowly with Very Little change. Only in that way will your economy and your business stay in harmony and grow.

All of these "faster" things we think will "Short circuit" the system are nothing more than flights of fancy. Massively tax the wealth of the country and you get capital flight. Then you don't have the money to do what you want to do. Inward investment shrivels up because people push in money to chase money that is already there. If that money runs away, then nobody will push money in. Just ask Greece. Punish the banks and the bankers and the banks will not lend. Their money regulates the flow of business and the growth of business. Throttle the banks and you throttle the life blood of the economy. Good practise, yes, controls and management, yes, draconian measures? NO.

There is no faster in this world. It is all long game. It's why the Chinese are winning now. They always play the long game. Whilst everyone else is running around in ever decreasing circles chasing ever shrinking fortune, China is building the economic engine of the entire world for the next 1,000 years.

The biggest problem we have in the UK today is focus and investment. The UK was not built on investment for today. The UK was built on investment for the next 100 or 200 years. People and companies looked to the future. OK our empire was very of the moment. However our industries and transport were not built for the next 5 minutes, they were built to enable the future generations.

We need to stop looking at me, my pocket and now. We need to start looking at what the country will need for the next two decades.

That is not a quick smash and grab on the wealth of the banks and the nation. We've already seen Brown do that with pensions. Quick smash and grab of £19 billion. To take on the commitment of £100bn in pensions when the schemes which were raided collapse.

We've had enough Brownian Short Termism. It's time for a longer game.
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Workingman » 19 Jul 2013, 12:17

Five year plans, seven year plans, 50 year plans.... they all work, but they always need tweaking. No economy works in isolation and the variables in the Global economy are many and, err, varied. The shifting sands of the overall economy very often need a longer term view

That is not the same as tackling government inefficiency and changes within its own economy. They should be dealt with urgently as both will impact on the overall economy.

George and Dave and Nick and Gordon and Alistair and Tony, et al, seem quite happy for government inefficiency to run at x%. However, if it was tackled the money saved could be put back into the internal economy to the benefit of us all. That would, of course, impact on the long-term external economy, and it would need tweaking, but Hell, that's what chancellors are for.
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Suff » 19 Jul 2013, 13:12

If you dump 500k public employees on jobseekers allowance, it will just create another and different problem.....
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby cromwell » 19 Jul 2013, 14:43

Suff wrote:The tory press hate the Lib Dems, so they pull the government down. The Labour papers hate the Tories so they pull the government down. The Lib Dem papers only like themselves and don't like being subservient so they pull the government down.

You forgot the BBC! Every time there is any good economic news Stephanie Flanders looks like she's just supped a quick pint of Sarson's malt vinegar. But then, as she dated both Ed Balls and Ed Miliband, and was a tutorial chum of Yvette Cooper, she would, wouldn't she?
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Workingman » 19 Jul 2013, 22:16

Suff wrote:If you dump 500k public employees on jobseekers allowance, it will just create another and different problem.....

We might be at cross purposes. I am talking about inefficiency in things like Quangos, procurement (n so many departments), setting things up and then abandoning them after costly reviews and inquiries, some ICT projects, vanity projects that will never work, endless and unnecessary Public Inquiries into all sorts of things.
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby cromwell » 20 Jul 2013, 10:13

Workingman wrote:
Suff wrote:I am talking about inefficiency in things like Quangos, procurement (n so many departments), setting things up and then abandoning them after costly reviews and inquiries, some ICT projects,

Funny you mention IT projects, Frank. Last night I heard of one that should have run for six months; lasted for two and a half years and failed because the "project manager" ignored warnings over a period of months to check that the software would work on some of the hardware; and stuff like that is only the tip of the iceberg.
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Suff » 20 Jul 2013, 20:54

Don't even BEGIN to talk to me about IT waste in Government.....

It's like waving a host of red flags at a bull.

First they would have to recognise that industry standards are there to make things cheaper and easier. Then they would have to understand that computer systems are there to make life easier and to do the mind numbingly boring keying jobs automatically by Pont of Contact smart entry.

That's before we've even got to the point of committee's who know nothing about the work to be done deciding on the full specification in total and finite detail, which cannot be changed at any stage. Which, naturally, fails at the first hurdle, because it bears no relation to the job to be done and is impossible to use....

Then the civil service ego.

I'm sunk. I am now going to contemplate Divine Wind......

However, WM, yes I know what you are saying. But you have to have a consensus of opinion to make these broad sweeping changes. What we have is a 3 legged race with a donkey as the third leg. It's a miracle of the Tories that we even have an economy to speak of or have done anything since the last Government began.

It's why I have a lot of time for Cameron and Osborne. Although most people, courtesy of the press, don't.... It is also why I have no time for Clegg at all...
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Re: All looking up in the land of the free

Postby Workingman » 20 Jul 2013, 21:41

I used to get apoplectic when I read of government waste in the 10s of millions, then it was 100s of millions, now it is billions.

But you are right Suff, the three main players all seem to accept a certain level of wastage - even as a % of GDP. As GDP goes up so does the waste, zero, or close to it, is not an option.
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