On the Eve of legislation to give the British another vote

[Suff]

On the EU, The Australians join the US and Japan in telling us:

The letter says: “Australia’s strong links with the UK allow Australian businesses to use the UK as a platform for trade and investment in the broader EU market

Well, my answer would be the same to all of them.

From where I stand who's problem is that?

To be honest, being a neutral arbiter from "Without" the EU, could carry significantly more power than as a subservient "bad boy" ignored within the EU.

I have become increasingly more annoyed with these statements from countries like the US. Well Mr Obama, if you want that much influence in the EU, get in there and MAKE it. Don't rely on UK good will. It might not be there.

To say it is insulting that these nations should want the UK to remain tied to a wheel which increasingly turns in a different way to the UK economy, just so their life could be easier, is an understatement.

I'm sure they would LOVE us to stay in the EU. They would also not stand to protect us when the nations of the wold come looking for our Permanent seat on the UN Security Council.....

Keep it up guys, you might help get a result you don't want.....

[cromwell]

When we went into the EEC we dumped on Australia and NZ big time.
That said, they can all keep their noses out now. We don't tell them what to do, so please accord us the same courtesy.
This is all part of a massive PR drive for the EU.

[TheOstrich]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't Cameron ASK them to comment ?

Can't castigate them too much for replying to a civil question ....

Whether or not we should have asked them in the first place is an entirely different matter .....

[cromwell]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't Cameron ASK them to comment ?

I didn't know that Os.

[TheOstrich]

Well, Crommers, I based my comment on:

The coalition launched the review as a result of a compromise between the Tories, who campaigned on a pledge in 2010 to repatriate powers from the EU, and the Liberal Democrats, who believed Britain should try to implement reform in continuing EU negotiations. The review will examine 32 areas over four reports, known as semesters, which will be completed by the autumn of 2014.

and

Eurosceptics, who argue for Britain to focus more attention on the English- speaking world, received a blow when the Australian foreign minister issued a strong call for Britain to remain in the EU. In a formal submission to the review, Bob Carr wrote: "Australia recognises the UK's strength and resilience and looks forward to seeing it continue as a leading economy and effective power. Strong, active membership of the EU contributes to this."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... gel-farage

I don't think he'd have said anything unless he was invited to .....

I think it was the same situation as with those public Japanese pro-EU comments, two or three days back.

[Workingman]

I sense twitchy bums in the anti camp and I am not surprised. What these countries are telling us, and have every right to tell us, is their view of how things will be if the UK leaves the EU.

Something closer to the truth than Farage's daydream is beginning to emerge.

[Suff]

I took a very different view of what was written. But then I've spent nearly two decades living and working with EU people of all walks.

"Australia recognises the UK's strength and resilience and looks forward to seeing it continue as a leading economy and effective power"

This is a stand alone and in it's own right. Has nothing to do with the EU or anything else. This is what the UK IS.

Strong, active membership of the EU contributes to this."

So what does weak, ostracised and combatitive membership of the EU do then? It certainly does not make the UK stronger.

Reality also is that the EU is saying to the UK "Stand and Deliver". Or "Sign or Die". They are determined that their model for finance, trade and economics will be rolled out to the UK, whether we want it or not.

I note, Nobody in the EU leads in Finance. Trade is heavily German biased and EU centric, with most trade outside the EU being on the deficit side of the scale. As for Economics? Well Blithering Brown's Big Lie went down a storm over there. Probably because the commission doesn't allow it's auditors to tell the truth. How long that can go on in the face of rapidly escalating borrowing and crashing GDP and employment is an interesting thing to follow. However it cannot continue forever.

So I see the Australian comments as "The UK is a strong and powerful Nation who we would like to use to put our position to the EU".

In my opinion the cost is not worth it. If we took the money we waste implementing EU directives and put it into business development, our economy would grow. The economy of the EU and the US has remained relatively static to currency values. Only China and Asia in general are growing.

BTW, I can't find, anywhere, that these countries were asked to comment. If you look at this FT blog entry, they even talk about the US "Breaking Ranks" which I do not identify with "Being Asked".

I'm pretty sure if they were asked, we'd know.

[Workingman]

To put things another way.

"Australia recognises the UK's strength and resilience and looks forward to seeing it continue as a leading economy and effective power. Strong, active membership of the EU contributes to this."

Or, in other words: If you leave the EU there is a danger that you will not continue as a leading economy and effective power.

"....they even talk about the US "Breaking Ranks"".

Breaking ranks with whom? If an outside country currently in free(er) trade negotiations with the EU, analyses the situation, as it certainly would, and comes up with an alternative to "Britain is better off out" I am sure it is fair to let its greatest ally know. It might be something to take notice of.

I really am looking forward to the referendum debate proper. It will mean both sides having to look at the books very carefully and in doing so a lot of myths and wish lists, on both sides, will be exposed for what they are.

[cromwell]

There won't be any constructive debate, imo.
Europhiles can never concentrate on how democratic the EU is because it isn't. It was never intended to be.
So usually the argument is economic. But right now and for the past five years the eurozone has been deep in the merde. So right now boasting about the economic success of the EU is not possible.
So, what does that leave?
It leaves a co-ordinated PR campaign in which the great and the good big up the EU. It means the EU espousing more popular issues, like % rates on credit cards.
But most of all it means stories about loss of "influence" but most especially, scare stories. Watch out for the old "3 million jobs will be lost if we leave the EU" lie being dusted off.
Next year we have the Euro elections and it is not an option for UKIP to be allowed to do well; we won't get headlines like "Nigel Farage ate my hamster" but there will be some SERIOUS mud slinging done.

[Workingman]

So, what does that leave?
It leaves a co-ordinated PR campaign in which the great and the good big up the EU. It means the EU espousing more popular issues, like % rates on credit cards.
But most of all it means stories about loss of "influence" but most especially, scare stories. Watch out for the old "3 million jobs will be lost if we leave the EU" lie being dusted off.

And of course the Europhobes will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.