Vocal Voices

I spend a lot of time thinking about the way this country of ours is going to the dogs, in so many ways,
and I have come to the conclusion that the reason is.... LACK OF DISCIPLINE.

In schools, at work. at play - in fact in most activities, there is now a growing lack of discipline.

A few weeks ago there was a programme on the TV about working conditions in Germany, and it was
interesting to note that in the workplace, the use of mobile phones and computers for private purposes
was not allowed. I have always maintained that such practises should be banned, but everybody seems
to do it now. Could this be the reason why Germany's economy is now so much healthier than hours?

Discipline is a fundamental requirement of any society. Without it we are on a slippery slope to chaos.

What do you think?

"Discipline"

It is a dirty word. It is a form of bullying designed to make people conform to the rules made by others, or so the thinking goes. Nowhere is this more evident than in schools. Teachers who punish pupils for failing to follow a perfectly reasonable request are tagged as bullies. The bully bar has been placed so low that even a raised voice is now bullying. The combination of the two means that any meaningful "discipline" cannot be kept.

The same is true in the workplace. Perfectly reasonable rules regarding dress code, personal appearance and attitude are regularly challenged if a person is disciplined for breaking them - some even go to court. Everybody is apparently entitled to do as they please, when it pleases them. To interfere, to discipline, is to bully and to infringe upon their human rights.

What has been lost with discipline is that other sort. The sort of discipline that comes from knowing right from wrong, from having manners and from respecting others - personal discipline. These things have to be taught, but nowadays they are not. The word "respect" is thrown about like confetti with no one really knowing its meaning any more. If people knew right from wrong and had manners and respect they would not need to be disciplined - would they?

As I have said many times the day family discipline was removed from parents, teachers and indeed the police we started sliding down the slippery slope.. Look at the shocking facts regarding children not being able to spell, communicate, unable to use eating utensils, verging on the illiterate in far too many cases.. Academies? what a laugh, any one naming their schools an Academies are off their heads and they need to look up the meaning of the word Academic!!
The lack of imagination so bad that governments and organisation need to copy the Americans.. Look at the state they are in!! We are told we are on the way up.. Yes we are "Up the Creek" The filthy language, the drugs the drinking and smoking and mode of dress shows us exactly what this country and its contents have become.. And its going to get worse.

Spot on Frank, I do so agree!

Kaz wrote:Spot on Frank, I do so agree!

So do I. This losing of discipline has been going on for at least 40 years, and getting worse with each generation.

I can't see how the process can be reversed unless there is a traumatic event that will precipitate us back in time.

Workingman wrote:What has been lost with discipline is that other sort. The sort of discipline that comes from knowing right from wrong, from having manners and from respecting others - personal discipline. These things have to be taught, but nowadays they are not. The word "respect" is thrown about like confetti with no one really knowing its meaning any more. If people knew right from wrong and had manners and respect they would not need to be disciplined - would they?

Spot on Frank.

Respect. Yes an interesting word. Those who demand it most are, generically, those who "give" it the least. If you want to be respected, then you must, yourself, be respectable. Being respectable starts with respecting the wishes and attitudes of others.

I must admit, I see my generation as one of the worst for trying to break down the rules and discipline of the generations who came before. 20:20 hindsight tells me that it was a very shortsighted and extremely destructive to our society.

I paid my dues with 7 years in the Army, learned my own self discipline and have tried to pass on my values to the children. Yet I'm still marked by my own journey through adolescence. Don't look for me to be wearing the suit and tie at work, I'm much more likely to be the person in trousers and shirt, or even black jeans.

The big problem, as I see it, is that our government encouraged a disconnect between rules and discipline and self determination. Encouraged litigation for acts of culpable stupidity and then backed the courts to ensure that we must be protected from being the most stupid idiots in the world. Very much a case of setting a low standard and deliberately trying to see how badly we could fail to achieve it....

Honestly, I don't know how we fix it now. These ideas are endemic in society today and have reached well into the press and the political bodies. I'm not even sure I want to fix it. Except for my Grandchildren, I would abdicate entirely.

Suff wrote:Honestly, I don't know how we fix it now. These ideas are endemic in society today and have reached well into the press and the political bodies. I'm not even sure I want to fix it. Except for my Grandchildren, I would abdicate entirely.

That's just how I feel, Suff.

In my lifetime to date, I must have witnessed more changes in the way we live than anyone before in history,
and the indications are that the rate of change is accelerating. I have had this feeling that, when I leave this
life it will be a better place than when I came. I find it hard to accept that in no way is that now possible.

The trouble is, of course, that for the younger generations the world they see is their norm - not ours.

I'm sure you are as aware as I am Aggers (or probably much more so), that age gives us a perspective that youth cannot have.

I make decisions today that I would never have made as a teenager. Based on my life knowledge and experience.

When society demanded that young people listened to those who had already experienced life and modified their behaviour to an acceptable standard, things were fairly OK. As soon as those who have no life experience start taking control of the situation, then we are fairly well lost.

Pretty much the lunatics are running the asylum and the doctors are pushed to the side and told to shut up. Really it can only end one way. I hope not to live to see it.

In days of yore, long before our time, it was a fact that the older generation were the ones with knowledge,
and were consequently generally accepted as the ones who should make decisions.

I suppose that man's entering the technological age has altered things, and the younger generation now think
they know more than their elders, which perhaps they do as regards technology. But, of course, there is more
to life than that.