Vocal Voices

Because it's in the US best interests and they won't listen to us if we decide to leave.

The independents take.

Well, let me see. k'You MR Obama.

To put it bluntly.

The UK has NO voice in the EU, it only has the ability to change things at the end of a gun. Just look at the regulations the EU has brought in for NO other reason than they DO NOT want to use the UK standards which lead the field, in safety, good practises or even just good common sense.

The EU will do literally ANYTHING NOT to follow the UK.

So we should tie ourselves to an institution which denigrates every thing we do for no other reason than it is WE who have done the hard work and chosen to lead.

Our influence in the EU is a myth, so why should we become a poodle mouthpiece for the US???? This defies any logic on any basis.

According to the US having 1/27th of ONE say in the community of 180 countries is MUCH stronger than ONE WHOLE say and the #5 say at that, in a community of 180 countries.

My maths is bad but it surely isn't that bad. Perhaps this is why they don't want to teach us good maths any more. So they can tell us anything they want and we'll believe them????

The yanks will do anything to downsize us.

I hope Cameron has the guts to take the idiots on.. "Though I very much doubt it"

Kate wrote:I hope Cameron has the guts to take the idiots on.. "Though I very much doubt it"

I doubt it, too. In my opinion the man is off his rocker.

Cameron hasn't the guts for anything worthwhile. I could say a lot more on the subject
but some might object to the tone of my reply.

I do not have to say it, but I am going to: "I told you so!"

The US position is not one of worrying about bent bananas or straight cucumbers, it is not about CAP or CFP, and it is not about Schengen, a single currency or sovereignty. The US has no axe to grid over any of those things, its stance is solely about influence. Its position is that it needs a strong ally within the European project and if it is not to be Britain it will find another.

On another tack, there was an interview over the holiday period with the Norwegian Trade Minister. He was explaining the difficulties Norway has working with the EU, where it has a special working relationship, and how one-sided it all is. Norway has access to European markets, but it has to abide by the same EU rules as any member state does. The difference is that it has no say in the formulation of those rules: none. That's where we would be.

Then today the Germans have chipped in. They have been quite open in saying that: "Britain leaving [the EU] would weaken the European idea, but it would weaken Britain's position in the world more," and "Losing the single market for the UK would be an economic disaster." They also went on to assert that any attempt by the UK to renegotiate its position and gain a "new settlement" would be strongly resisted in Europe.

Need I mention the regular calls by UK business leaders not to damage our relationship with the EU?

Those are the Realpolitik, and they are a lot different from the hit-and-hope version of UKIP and the Europhobes who would have us believe that economic Shangri La, Utopia, Nirvana and Heaven are just over the horizon.

Aggers wrote:

Kate wrote:I hope Cameron has the guts to take the idiots on.. "Though I very much doubt it"

I doubt it, too. In my opinion the man is off his rocker.

Cameron hasn't the guts for anything worthwhile. I could say a lot more on the subject
but some might object to the tone of my reply.

Quite! I agree 100% Aggers

It is no less than BLACKMAIL.. Placing Cameron in an almost impossible none enviable situation..
I Dread the prospect of UKIP and Labour becoming bedfellows.. But then Labour will jump into bed with any old Tom if they think it will gain them an advantage.

Cameron is in the position that he is in because of his and all past administrations' ambiguity about Europe. The UK political classes have never embraced Europe, from the day we joined, even though we did so with the support of the vast majority of the population: a 2:1 majority.

I don't know why we bothered.

With hindsight it would have been better if we had boosted EFTA as an alternative to the EEC. We were far and away the outstanding economy of the EFTA group... its de facto leader. However, at the time of the EEC debate, we were also the sick man of Europe with strikes and hyper-inflation, so not exactly leadership material.

Cameron's position gets worse, even his allies are lining up the knives.

Yesterday it was Conservative MEPs and today it is Heseltine.

He is in a bad place, but let's have a look at the people who are sounding off in the media in support of our continued membership of the EU.

Heseltine? Who are they going to dig up next, Leon Brittan?
Heseltine, Geoffrey Howe, John Major, Ken Clarke - weren't these the people who took us into the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM), and caused Black Friday, the massive run on the pound? Yes, they blinking well are!

That paragon of probity, 'Lord' Mandelson, Tony Blair, Ken Clarke (again), Paddy Pantsdown - weren't these the people who were warning us that, unless we joined the Euro we would all be eating concrete forever and having to sell our families into white slavery? Yes, they bloody well are!

This is the enduring mystery of the coverage we get on the EU. These people are presented as paragons of statesmanship and wisdom. They aren't. On major decisions in the past they have proved to be demonstrably wrong- I mean, you can't get much more wrong than saying in 2003 "Let's join the euro, it'll be great!".

Bias in the broadcast media - you bet.