Vocal Voices

Love Salmond and want to explain his position.

Bloody hypocrites. In fact they just want to stick one to Cameron. The fact that they are, for once, telling the unvarnished truth is an Irony too far.

However they very succinctly put Salmonds position (and mine for that matter).

"I am actually not surprised they are cavilling and reneging on commitments, I am only surprised by the speed at which they are doing it. They seem to be totally shameless in these matters,"

I'd go with that.

Further powers: Parliamentary motion

That this House...

Welcomes the result of the Scottish independence referendum and the decision of the people of Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom;
recognises that people across Scotland voted‎ for a Union based on the pooling and sharing of resources and for the‎ continuation of devolution inside the United Kingdom;
Notes the statement by the prime minister, deputy prime minister and leader of the opposition regarding the guarantee of and timetable for further devolution to Scotland;
Calls on the government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30 October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals;
Further calls on the government to publish heads of agreement by the end of November and draft clauses for the new Scotland Bill by the end of January 2015.

Better Together had told Scottish voters the motion would be presented to parliament on Friday.

That, by the way, was Friday the 19th. I listened to David's speech.

You vote No on Thursday the 18th and things will start to get better on Friday the 19th.

I heard it myself so I don't need to put a link.

My foot is tapping. Maybe it will be Monday. Maybe not. Note the motion. 30th October. Now in one of the previous articles I posted, the English Devolution issue is to report back in "October". So how are they then going to get an agreement by October 30th on the wording of a bill to be put before Parliament by January.

I wonder when the English press will drop it? When will it be more interesting to talk about something else? I'm sure that some Scots press will not drop it all the way to the Election. This is not going away and it won't be buried.

Give it a week and it won't just be my foot tapping. Give it a month and it will sound like distant drums. Give it six months and it will sound like thunder. Right through the elections for Westminster.

My foot is tapping. Maybe it will be Monday. Maybe not.

Oh don't be so pedantic, Suff - Friday, Monday, for goodness sake, it's coming! All that sort of attitude does is further alienate those of us south of the border. But then that's what you pro-Nationalists really want, isn't it?

Having got that off my chest, though, I will say that Cameron is completely out of order linking the Scottish reforms timetable in with English reforms. Oh yes, we will get an English parliament, but I want the whole system set up properly, and above all democratically and fairly. That will take time (not least because I haven't had my say on it yet!), and I am not going to accept being stitched-up in some cobbled-up arrangement favouring our erstwhile political classes, which is what they will attempt to foist on us. In the meantime, however, the promised further devolution of Scottish powers should be settled now - and as a priority.

Cameron is going to be toast if he continues in this political party points-scoring vein - you Scots can toast one side, and quite frankly, I'd be more than happy to toast the other side of him.

I would be be more than happy to toast the other side of David Cameron. Slightly off topic but it isn't the first time David Cameron has reneged on promises in order go get votes. Prior to this election he promised fathers that they would be given the right by law for contact with their children, the only exception being if it was detrimental to the child. By the time legislation was published it had been watered down so much as to render it meaningless to fathers and their children. Fathers are still being denied the right of contact with their children, and likewise children are being denied the right of contact with their fathers, thus ensuring the perpetuation of endless conflict through the family courts.


Those who can't or won't deliver on their promises would be best not making them in the first place else they will face a day of reckoning.

TheOstrich wrote:

My foot is tapping. Maybe it will be Monday. Maybe not.

Oh don't be so pedantic, Suff - Friday, Monday, for goodness sake, it's coming! All that sort of attitude does is further alienate those of us south of the border. But then that's what you pro-Nationalists really want, isn't it?

Truly and honestly not. What we Nats want is to completely remove all of the arguments, all of the issues, all of the dissent and all of the discussions. North of the border.

Oh and we want to move all the money that we generate north of the border too.

The problem is this. If they can't even live up to the simplest of all the promises, that of presenting the motion to parliament on the Friday; then experience says that getting anything else beyond that is impossible. They have fallen at the first hurdle.

As you say and absolutely rightly, the English issue must be solved. Me I attempted to do that my way. Westminster decided that this was wrong and they were going to solve it their way. Which means I'm supposed to get what I never wanted and never asked for and you don't get what you dearly want and have been asking for; for a long time.

Isn't that just British politics. What I'm trying to highlight here is the lying scumbag interfering done by the press, the businesses and Westminster; in a decision which was up to the Scottish people. They seem to think (all of them), that they can go back to business as usual.

I think they have a surprise coming.

However I think I'm going to have my say with the SNP, if they'll listen to me. There is a huge amount they could have done to dismantle the claims of the No campaign. With hindsight, that is clear. Also what is clear is that the No campaign had nothing else up their sleeves but fear and false promises.

What I'm going to campaign for now is a Scots referendum. No not one to see if Scots want to leave the UK. Not again and not in that way right now. I'm going to campaign for a referendum which asks if they want to make that decision again based on the fact that they've been lied to. This can be a very fast vote. 3 weeks tops. Won't give Westminster chance to pass the laws they should have passed.

In the meantime I think I'll go badgering them to see if they recognise where they went wrong.

£. 2 options with a referendum before decision. Scots £ first or English £ if the English offer
Faslane. Referendum on whether to keep it or to lose it.
Voting rights. Referendum on whether to allow EU citizens to vote in a referendum which determines the future of Scotland or not. In other words, either resident Scots citizens or everyone who is resident
Economy. Set out a detailed analysis of what Scotland would earn and what it currently gets. The up front costs of setting up and the balance of the economy.
Constitution. Create a new constitution setting the Queen as the head of state and setting out the rights of the people. Including a referendum on Any constitutional change (which would remove any chance of Scotland becoming a republic without a referendum). Then a referendum on the constitution before it goes into power. I would also have consulting groups to work on the draft constitution which would be fnialised and then voted on.
Europe. Having set out the economic situation, highlight what Scotland contributes to the EU (money resources, fishing rights, etc) and what Scotland gets. Then highlight how much of the UK budget would reduce with the money going to Scotland. Then agree and communicate a timetable. EEA first as Scotland would have to leave, but would still get access to the EU markets and economy. EU second after a referendum of Scots on whether they want to enter or not.

I would have all of this agreed and documented as far as possible. Then, having highlighted the plan, have the referendum on whether the scots feel they have been lied to and whether they want another chance at independence. One shot deal. If they don't think they have been lied to, then fine, nothing moves, if they do, then they have it in black and white, what they are going to vote for. No "White Papers" with hopes and wishes, solid facts.

That's what I'd do and not one small part of it would be done to annoy the English. It would be done For the Scots and nothing to do with the English...