Vocal Voices

.... by up to nearly 20% for new recruits; and because of their Ts & Cs there is not much the police can do about it.

This could be bad news for other front line services as well. Firefighters and nurses could find similar impositions if they are not careful, so could the Armed Forces, even teachers.

I think that nurses might be the most vulnerable. It would not take much to convince Ministers that a Degree is not necessary to become a nurse. The argument will go that a diploma will do, as used to be the case - much quicker and cheaper.

They are looking at the wrong end of the police service.
Have a look at Inspectors (£50,000), Chief Supers (£70,000) and that's before you get to Assistant Chiefs and Chief Constables...

Yes but Cromwell those Inspectors and higher ranks have usually been in the police for a very long time and earned their pay increases. My BIL is a Detective Inspector and has risen from the ranks over 25 years in the job!

Cutting pay for recruits is counterproductive - if you want decent recruits the pay needs to be livable!

WM I actually think that nursing shouldn't require a degree...........I think the old system of SEN and SRN nursing with on the job practical training worked extremely well! It did for my MIL who started as a children's nurse aged 15 and nursed all of her adult life until retirement, via maternity nursing, midwifery, district nursing, macmillan nursing and eventually becoming a trainer of district nurses. She thinks the old system made for more rounded nurses, with compassion - you shouldn't need to be academic! You just need basic intelligence, compassion and stamina............

Kaz, the thing with the pay cut for new recruits is that it feeds in year on year.

It will take most new recruits two years to get to the old start pay, and that lag goes on for their whole careers. Same with next year's recruits, and those the year after... For the government it is a huge saving.

Now, apply it to other services and you have a King's ransom, even though it is probably true that starting pay had got (slightly) too high.

Nurses, whether we agree with degrees or not, are to my mind especially vulnerable given the way the NHS is being treated. My bet is that this will not stop at the police, in the long run.

I know Kaz, but I saw the other side.

I was a police civilian for mor than 20 years. I saw lots of Inspectors and above doing their thirty years to maximise their pension / lump sum, and then start to look at the police support staff side for another job; and these other jobs weren't £15 - £20,000 pa. We are talking £35,000 upwards.

So they would have their pension, which is higher than the the average national wage, plus a taxfree six figure lump sum, plus a very good new wage plus be building up another pension pot. It was massively greedy and has left an indelible impression on me.

Yes, fair enough