The end of Schengen as we know it?

[Workingman]

It looks to be on the cards after years of fudge and pussyfooting about with the weakness of the external borders. Better late than never does not work with this one, the doors have been open for years. Checking every person coming in to the EU from another territory, even those with EU passports, as is proposed, should always have been the case. Other places do it. Their nationals might have shorter queues to go through, but they still get checked.

We might also get:

The creation of a pan European Intelligence service.

And a new mini-Schengen zone withn the old zone - a stronger Schengen in the old weak one.

The first should not be too controversial, depending on its remit. We already have Europol.

The second is far more interesting. Those five countries are effectively saying that there are already too many suspects wandering about within Schengen and they want extra control within a super strong secondary border.

Not only will those countries outside the mini-Schengen not agree, but even if it was set up it would only work if the countries inside did a vigorous round-up and expulsion of those suspects already on the inside. That would need a huge political step change from current, and entrenched, thinking.

[KateLMead]

You are so right w/m. The situation becomes more frightening and interesting by the day.. What worries me is that our now reduced military could be sent as ground forces when "The Enemy Is here Within". The meet at Bedford Corn Exchange last week is one example where radicals were given permission to preach their rhetoric, a meeting set up like "Question Time"courtesy of the Bedford Mayor who is also a Liberal MP.sadly the damage has been done ,the doors were opened and now cannot be. Closed."where there's a will there's a way"

[cromwell]

I'm not so sure. The EU is run by people who never made one mistake - in their own minds anyway. I've seen people interviewed on TV this week defending Schengen and saying that it had nothing to do with the Paris attacks, despite at least two of the terrorists coming into Europe as "refugees", despite how easy Schengen makes smuggling weapons across Europe.

When that is coupled with the damp eyed liberals who see nothing wrong in importing millions of entitled economic immigrants into Europe, and who push for the certifiable insanity of "open borders", imo Schengen isn't dead yet. More innocent people will have to be murdered in European capitals before that happens.

[Workingman]

I did not say Schengen was dead, but dead as we know it; and it does look about to be changed.

It is not that the Schengen principle was wrong or dangerous had it been implemented with force to create strong external borders from the outset. Unfortunately it was not.

How the problems created by not doing proper external border checks can be resolved is beyond me.

[Osc]

I always thought Schengen was a bad idea, especially as more countries have come into the EU.

[TheOstrich]

How the problems created by not doing proper external border checks can be resolved is beyond me.

Simples. Scrap Schengen in its entirety.

I've always regarded Schengen as a ploy to federalise Europe; in other words, unhindered movement across state lines makes member states an integral part of a whole, as the member states of say Tennessee and North Dakota are part of a whole known as the USA. I can understand the practical advantages of un-bureaucratising international travel within Europe, but the political thrust of it - well, you know my stance on the EU, so say no more!

The trouble is, having now effectively got rid of (most of the) internal borders, unless you have a formal "country" called "EU" (as the USA is), you will never be able to provide the necessary mechanism to secure the external borders. Given a choice between having a formal "country" called "EU", which is what Brussels wants, or returning to full controls at internal borders, I'll take the latter ....

Having a mini-Schengen is the worst of both worlds and will only breed resentment from those countries like Greece, Italy and Bulgaria duly excluded from it.

Creation of a pan-European intelligence service - I'm not so sure. It all depends how far you go with it. Sharing of information, yes, but I don't want a situation like we see in "The Bridge" where a citizen of one country (Sweden) can be spied on / interrogated by the police of a different country (Denmark). If that's an authentic representation of what happens in reality ......

[medsec222]

The next suggestion will be a federal army or police force to protect the borders.

[Suff]

I alwys find the UK knowledge of the EU amusing. Of course it is down to our politicians and our press, but still the information is out there.

Schengen is not a "ploy" or even a political gambit, it is an absolute requirement of the state of the EU as enshrined in the Maastricht treaty and the Lisbon treaty. They have not suggested Creating an EU border force, it already exists along with embassies, a foreign service, ambassadors and a foreign minister. It was suggested that this pre existing force should take over all EU external borders and be funded by the EU....

Schengen is not going away, it may be modified for a while until they can try and sort out the mess they have made, but it will never be removed.

All I see are people trying to find a statement which the public might accept whilst they search for answers. ..

I return to Brussels today. Friday they might have been looking but there was no hint of passport checks on the Belgian French border.

It will be interesting to see the lock down in the City tonight and tomorrow.