Labour.

[pederito1]

What then is traditional Labour? not very far removed from communism and one thinks of Plato`s "Copper Classes". Now every manual worker with no attributes beyond muscle seems to think he or she is entitled to a nice house, nice car, nice partner and loads of kids looked after by the state. If only the economy would allow that. It certainly was a near thing for Cameron, looking at the maps the distribution of red/blue areas hardly changed and it was only by the collapse of the Liberals and no fresh UKIP seats that he made it. Maybe I am overestimating the intelligence of many voters but I think lots of people including me wished to show support for UKIP but would not risk it in an area that was not a Die Hard True Blue Tory strong hold.

[miasmum]

so yet again I am left saying

if people voted for what they wanted, instead of voting for what they don't want, to stop other people getting what they want, more people would have got what they wanted.

UKIP are in exactly the same position as the Lib Dems were 5 years ago. People screamed and shouted they would vote for them, but when it came to it, they were too scared of what they might end up with if they didn't try to prevent something else.

We will never have the Government we want unless we are brave enough to vote for it.

I am happy to say I voted with my heart not my head. I voted Lib Dem, because I have always voted Lib Dem, I saw nothing to make me change my mind. Yes I thought of voting Tory because I didn't want a Labour/SNP coalition, and I hoped the Lib Dems would get in via the back door to tame the Tories, but in the end I voted with my heart and I am proud I did.

[TheOstrich]

I was a Labour supporter all my working life, but I agree that they have now practically
come to the end of their mission in life. Their only chance of achieving a meaningful role
as a political party is to concentrate on representing present-day working class people.

I think this is absolutely spot on. In a way, Old Labour, if I can call it that, has achieved what it set out to do. The lot of the British working class is very different now to what it was in the pre-war and immediate post war years. Perhaps these days, with the demise of our basic industries, there is no such thing as a working class any more. The mines are gone, the metal bashers are gone, the major union today really represents little more than the clerical industry, and teaching is and always was a profession, despite the unions trying to redefine it.

Hate to say it, but Blair actually had a point in inventing New Labour. It has to be an aspirational party - which is primarily why we all voted for it first time around.

Labour simply doesn't need to re-fight old fights. Class dogma is so outdated - we are now pretty much "one nation". It needs a radical new set of ideals to embrace, and injustices to challenge. Defining those should be the debate.

[Workingman]

The lot of the working class might have changed but it has not disappeared. It is true that the dirty jobs of years past have largely gone, but they have been replaced with warehousing, call centres, social care, service industry jobs, and their likes. The workers might not get dirty but they are still in poorly paid unskilled work and on in-work benefits.

Like it or not there is still a job to do for a worker's party, if one can be found.

[miasmum]

Well I suppose there was TUSC http://www.tusc.org.uk

but looking at their candidates whenever their votes were announced, they just appeared to be complete thugs, on a day trip from the BNP

[Workingman]

Hmm, not quite what I had in mind but then I am only a socialist with a small 's'.

[Kaz]

Well said Shell, you should be proud

[miasmum]

Oh thanks Kaz. I have no confidence when it comes to discussing politics, because I am not hugely politically aware but I do believe what I said and I did read the Lib Dem manifesto believe it or not and liked most of what I read. Just sad I will never get what I believe in.

This is a good article, although would have been better if they had got Vince Cable's name right

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... thing.html

I desperately want Tim Farron to be the next leader

[Kaz]

Pederito my dad was a manual worker with no attributes beyond muscle, he carried hods on building sites, built roads, dug ditches, but he was the sweetest kindest most hardworking man you ever met. He and my mum came from incredibly underprivileged backgrounds but they did their best for my sister and I. I got into grammar school, J did not but got herself a very good office job, married a man from a similar background but equally hardworking, her daughter is now working her way up the echelons of production work at the BBC with a good degree behind her, her son is finishing a politics degree at Heidelburg, my eldest has a good job in IT, my daughter just finishing a degree in wildlife and planning to work abroad.......... My sister's hubby is high up in management for TFL in London, travels a lot for his work too. My husband also works hard for BT in a joint technical/management role. They both earn well, in fact we would have been worse off under Red Ed but voted for him all the same. To give youngsters coming up now the same chances that we had. The Tories now are taking us back to the 19th century with the rich getting ever richer and the poor ever poorer. I do honestly believe that £12billion in benefit cuts, dismantling the NHS, uni fees discouraging poorer children from attending - and these days you need a degree for any sort of decent profession......... Do I think my family would have been as upwardly mobile now, as we were a generation ago? No I do not!

I don't think you should make assumptions about the working classes or their offspring, with equal chances they can do rather well................

[Kaz]

Tim Farron does seem like a decent chap Shell x