Croatia next, then......

[Workingman]

I believe my way would save more lives. Otherwise I'd be campaigning for relief all along the way, not just when they finally make it to Serbia or Croatia or whatever Balkan country they do end up in.

I agreed. It would, but it is not happening. The things you propose, and all of us agree with them, are not happening.

I want them to happen as much as anybody, but FCOL when they are not being done we surely have to look at other ways of dealing with the crisis?

Can any of you who are against my POV put your hands on your hearts and say that you can accept the deaths of these people, illegal activities or not, as a solution to a problem we, the people, did not create?

[Suff]

Hand on heart? I'm going to seem really heartless here but yes, if it caused the correct action through the deaths of these people, to save more lives, yes I could live with it.

I'm not so ruled by my immediate emotions that I can't see that other people are putting them in danger to achieve political goals. The bigger issue is that those putting them in that danger right now are more than willing for them to die in order to get what they want.

That, for me, makes it imperative that we do not bow to them. Because those others will cause more deaths, pain and misery to these people than we will see in the short time it would take to resolve this crisis.

If ever there was a case of "hold fast", regardless of the consequences, this is it.

[TheOstrich]

Can any of you who are against my POV put your hands on your hearts and say that you can accept the deaths of these people, illegal activities or not, as a solution to a problem we, the people, did not create?

No I can't. The deaths are unacceptable as a solution to a problem we did not create. But there is a qualification. The qualification is "at present".

There may come a time when thanks to the absolutely bloody useless set of politicians we have across the EU that we may eventually find ourselves literally fighting for our own survival. Sobering thought, isn't it? And then, as in 1939, deaths will have to become "acceptable".

I see Merkel has still not been ousted from power. Why not? She is the arch-architect of the current calamity. It's about time the German people got their act together. We wouldn't stand for it if Cameron was letting half a million refugees into the UK. Well, the BBC and the Guardian would, but not many others, I reckon ......

[Suff]

This is where I think most people have it wrong.#

The EU is stating that it's unacceptable to not take these people because it's "the right thing to do".
WM, Ossie, you are saying deaths now are unacceptable because it's "the right thing to do".

The problem is that trying to do the right thing for the wrong reasons almost always creates a bigger problem with a bigger impact. In my mind saving these people now for the wrong reasons will kill far more people in the future.

We did not create this drama. But we are certainly going to make a crisis out of it if we don't act sensibly. I see no willingness, anywhere in the EU, including the UK, to act sensibly.

[pederito1]

So it has at last emerged what has been suspected for some time that very few of the multitude of refugees are actually Syrians fleeing from the terror of Isis.
The rest of wannabees are either seizing the opportunity of jumping on the band wagon for a better life in Europe or - perish the thought , a calculated Muslim invasion. Perhaps an answer to Friday prayers from Allah to say "Go west young man go' ye forth and multiply" which is what will happen and letting so many Muslims in shows a total and callous disregard for future generations when they would for sure want to influence the countries they settle in and eventually take over to create Muslim States.
I think we should destroy Isis imprison its leaders and send the refugees back to where they came from.

[Workingman]

Suff, I am not disagreeing with you. I do believe that many more lives will be saved if what you, and others, are suggesting and were being implemented. The key phrase there is "being implemented": they are not.

EU politicians are playing games and the illegal immigrants are, to some extent, their pawns. Let us not forget that Sweden and Germany sent out open invitations to them and what they are trying to do, by fair means or foul, is accept.

If the Germans and Swedes are so desperate for these people let them send aircraft to Athens, Belgrade and Zagreb and fly them out. Meanwhile, let the EU shut its external borders to any more. I will not be holding my breath.

[cromwell]

Turkey is happy for them to go to Greece. Greece is happy that they go to Serbia. Serbia is happy that they go to Hungary. Hungary is either keeping them out or sending them on to Austria, and Austria is happy for them to go to Germany.
Nobody wants these people. Even St Angela of Murky is now wanting to pass them on from Germany back to everybody else!

[Workingman]

Turkey is happy for them to go to Greece. Greece is happy that they go to Serbia. Serbia is happy that they go to Hungary. Hungary is either keeping them out or sending them on to Austria, and Austria is happy for them to go to Germany. Nobody wants these people. Even St Angela of Murky is now wanting to pass them on from Germany back to everybody else!

Precisely!

Meanwhile, let the EU shut its external borders to any more. I will not be holding my breath.

So, are we all agreed that this "crisis" is NOT 100% solely down to the illegal immigrants and that the EU's ***king useless politicians are probably more to blame?

Would that be a correct appreciation of the problem?

[cromwell]

More to blame I'm not sure of; probably though.

What is certain is that Merkel has made the situation much worse than it should have been, and that EU politicians are acting individually in the interests of their own country and not bothering about the big, EU picture. Also Merkel's "solution" of just divvying up the migrants is no solution at all, because it doesn't address the problem but just tries to cater for it!

The EU is soft and is being driven by the media. It has become smug and detached from the grim realities of life. Yes, there has been no war between EU countries since 1945, but there is plenty of war elsewhere and it takes hard decisions to deal with the fall out of war; decisions which the EU seems incapable of making. The only EU leader who does realise this is Orban of Hungary.

It's just going to end badly. You can't import millions of people into other people's countries in a very short time and not cause social unrest and bad feeling.

[Workingman]

More to blame I'm not sure of; probably though.

What is certain is that Merkel has made the situation much worse than it should have been, and that EU politicians are acting individually in the interests of their own country and not bothering about the big, EU picture. Also Merkel's "solution" of just divvying up the migrants is no solution at all, because it doesn't address the problem but just tries to cater for it!

The EU is soft and is being driven by the media. It has become smug and detached from the grim realities of life. Yes, there has been no war between EU countries since 1945, but there is plenty of war elsewhere and it takes hard decisions to deal with the fall out of war; decisions which the EU seems incapable of making. The only EU leader who does realise this is Orban of Hungary.

It's just going to end badly. You can't import millions of people into other people's countries in a very short time and not cause social unrest and bad feeling.

Will people read what Cromwell has said.