So now we know what the EU must do to keep us

[KateLMead]

"Common Purpose" predicted years ago that the EU's intention was to create Super State. I am amazed at the people including those in government who are members of this organisation, also I remember the secrecy and the furore and threats to whistleblowers when Kinnock refused to publish the accounts and seemingly none have been revealed to this day .
My brain is not functioning too well these days, but it is functioning enough to note that we are being governed by a load of chancers and liars in the EU and here in the UK.

[Workingman]

The way the whole crisis has been handled has been shambolic from the very start, and not only by the EU and EU members.

Turkey, the Balkan states and some in N. Africa, along with the UN, have all broken International law by allowing unregistered and passport-less people to transit their territories.

[Aggers]

My brain is not functioning too well these days, but it is functioning enough to
note that we are being governed by a load of chancers and liars in the EU and here in the UK.

I think my brain is functioning fairly well for my age, Kate, but I, too, think the same as you.
In fact I have a feeling that morals and ethics have deteriorated considerably in recent years,
not only in politics but in many aspects of life. Why ? I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that
this change in attitudes may be because we are now living in an affluent society, where folks
worship money instead of God. I am sure that the years I went to church in my younger days,
when churches were so well attended, had a profound effect on the way I conducted myself
for the rest of my life. Now I read in the papers that churches are now considering opening
only at Easter and Christmas, because average attendance for services, per church, is now
only six. I also have a feeling that modern technology might be contributing to the problem.

[Workingman]

Aggers, that is an interesting take and even as a committed Atheist I think that there might be something in it.

I was brought up a Catholic and attended church well into my late teens. I became an Atheist when in the RAF I saw, and had to deal with, the clash of religions. It put me off forever. However, my lifestyle, the way to behave and defining right from wrong were ingrained in me from my upbringing.

Where I would slightly disagree with you is in that I think many people today have no belief in anything except for me, me and me. They have no spirituality in them at all. By spirituality I do not mean a belief in a God, Angels, Saints or Prophets; I mean that they no appreciation of wonders they have all around them - a rainbow, the birth of a child, a shooting star.

[Suff]

I was brought up in a household which had decided that they would not just go to church because their parents did. Their decision for us as children was that if we wished to go to church they would aid us as much or as little as we asked, but they would not present the case either way to us. It was our job to make our own minds up.

Notably neither my brother nor I felt any inclination to have anything to do with the church. Although for my second marriage we chose the church, mainly because Mrs S was a member of that church, the minister was a personal friend of us both and I had no objections. After all I had been baptised in that church.

Yet, having said all that, I was brought up in a household with strict rules about right and wrong. With even stricter rules about how you treat people regardless of their ethnicity or religion and very strict rules as to treating others in the way you would want them to treat you.

Nothing in my childhood led me to believe that there was a free ride in life. On the contrary, I never had "pocket money" like so many of my friends, I had to get a job for that.

Fast forward and contrast today? I see whole generations not only self obsessed but actually encouraged to be self obsessed. I don't believe, generally, that it has so much to do with church and religion. I believe that it has to do with society, upbringing and expectations. As you can tell from my own upbringing, you don't need the church to set high expectations. Yes, church and a sense of community can help greatly in being a standards setting body. Although, as we have seen throughout history, the church can also be a divisive and self obsessed organisation which causes as much harm and repression as good.

In my own lifetime I see the most damaging time to the social structure of the country during the Blair/Brown years. But, then again, perhaps that was also about me moving from my 30's to my 40's and the change in viewpoint as a father and a grandfather. Who knows. But I see the rise of the "no blame no matter how bad" culture expanding from that point. I see it as a disease which has slowly infected all of the vital services and the social order of the UK.

Sadly I don't really see any way out of it outside of the fundamental breakdown of law and order in the country, replaced my marital law and then re-negotiated back to a sensible status quo level where everyone can live and work in a reasonable and responsible fashion.

Given that I see this as impossible/undesirable, my next best bet is to get out from under the dictatorial EU directives and insane Strasbourg court decisions and get back to working out how best to make our country run. Rather than basing our countries evolution around another 27 countries who range from dysfunctionally repressed to dysfunctionally liberal and all the ranges in-between....

Hence why I'm willing to make my life harder in order to make it better for the UK and my grandchildren.