Social Security

[victor]

minister here was on tv saying she can't understand why NO families have come forward to say they would take in any immigrants(locals are now saying 700 for Madeira).

so let's see the possible reasons for this---

locals that have had their house/apt re -possessed after losing their jobs,and moved back to parents

immigrants being GIVEN acc( re-possessed ) rent free

locals on min pay -500 euros p/m before tax

immigrants being given 1,500 euros p/m

this is what locals are saying

Brussels footing the bill FOR the immigrants--but not helping the locals

[Suff]

It's a huge issue isn't it.

Just imagine how it is going to play out in Portugal, Ireland and Greece when they start doing that there.....

These people in the EU have absolutely no idea what they are doing or how the people struggling to survive are going to view their actions. All they want to do is play Lady/Lord bountiful on the world stage so that they can say they are "good people"....

I most certainly don't wish them good luck with that....

[Workingman]

Vic, those figures are one of the myths and legends. €500 pcm is only €3.15 hr.

I do not doubt that homes have been repossessed, but to say they are then being handed out to migrants who get a further €1,500 pcm, tax free, falls into the faerie tale category.

[victor]

Min wage here is 500E p/m

[Suff]

Well if you calculate rent plus benefits on, say, family with 2 children, it may come to €1,500 per month.

In Sweden they are giving out 10,000 SEK a month over and above free accommodation. That's about £800 per month. It probably has to cover all their transport costs etc.

When you think about it, families in the UK get more on benefits than a single person or a couple with just one wage. This is what tax credits were supposed to redress. Basically that you were better off not working without tax credits.

I don't see why it would be so far out of bounds for this to be happening with the immigrants. After all, before Blair and Brown, it happened a lot in the UK and still happens to a degree now.

Just to add to that, I just checked the Spanish minimum wage. If you calculate it on a 20 day month, it works out at €4.72 per hour.

Which is exactly why people are flooding into the UK.

[Workingman]

OK, I found this re Madeira;

Cost of living.
The cost of living in Madeira is considerably lower than the rest of Europe. The majority of goods are much cheaper than in the other European Union countries, including the price of property, renting, food, drinks and entertainment. It is difficult to calculate the average cost of living in Madeira since it depends on the circumstances and type of life led by each person. The fact of the matter is that the majority of foreigners living in Madeira coming from Western European countries consider the cost of living to be up to 50% lower than in the country of their birth.

Some typical costs:

rented quality apartment located in Funchal: EUR 20/m2/month
purchased quality apartment located in Funchal: EUR 1,250/m2
meal in a mid- to high-quality restaurant: EUR 20/meal
purchased offices in the centre of Funchal: EUR 1,750/m2
rented offices in the centre of Funchal: EUR 20/m2/month

Labour costs:

Minimum wage in Madeira: EUR 515,10/month
Salary of a newly graduated professional without work experience: EUR 750/month
Salary of a university graduate (engineer, accountant, economist, lawyer) with two years’ work experience: EUR 1,500/month
Salary of a highly qualified top-level manager with more than five years’ work experience: EUR 3 000/month

Rightmove has this 2 bed flat for sale: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-pro ... 42093.html Try getting one of those for £59k in the UK.

Let's stop comparing apples and pears shall we?

The EU is not a uniform economy, but neither are Germany, Sweden, the UK, USA, Canada, Australia.... Nowhere is giving benefits to the level of their own university graduates (engineer, accountant, economist, lawyer) with two years’ work experience and that includes Madeira.

[victor]

another point is ,where are immigrants going to work? locals can't find work,

a neighbours daughter is trained in child care ,where does she work ,a well known clothing retailer ,can only have part time 24 hrs p/w= 300 euros p/m.she is in the process of interviews for her work in UK

[Kaz]

It is all creating resentment, of that there is no doubt. I read of a case in Germany, where tenants are being forced out of an apartment block so that it can be turned into a refugee/migrant shelter

I am all for helping the genuinely needy immigrants, but it should not be at the expense of local people as that will produce a lot of resentment, and we all know where that leads..........................

It happens here too, a lady who worked as a cleaner in the town centre shopping centre where I worked for a while was at her dentist's surgery, wondering if she could afford to pay for her urgent dental work when someone obviously foreign came up to the desk, produced an exemption card of some sort which paid for his new crowns etc, having had extensive work, showing a bright white smile...............I am a very reasonable woman, but stuff like that makes my hackles rise

[victor]

The difference in culture is I imagine will be a problem come the summer,as Muslims do not approve of the way western women/girls dress , wait until they see the beaches come summer!

Portuguese men will very defensive of their women in the face of criticism

[Suff]

And, of course, Vic, the Portugese men are such souls of discretion, don't like a good fight and won't use knives either??? Just the same as the Swede's really......

WM, it was not I that was comparing apples with oranges. I pointed out the basic differences with the minimum wage in Spain and in the UK. I, for one, am extremely aware of the differences in earning power, price of property and letting and the actual cost of living for food and clothes etc. The French are much, much poorer than the UK in this respect. Yes houses may be much cheaper, but wages are a lot lower, second hand cars can be 3 times the price and food, generally now, for us, is cheaper in the UK. The food side is particularly irksome as the numbers of people doing their basic grocery shopping on Mouse2House is growing exponentially. UK supermarket deals mean they can cut tens to hundreds of pounds off their monthly shopping bill even when you factor in the transport costs.

So I'm also hyper aware of the issues with incomers with disproportionate levels of money who are strange to the environment.