The Party is over

[Suff]

So now the German extremists are attacking the politicians....

Well, if you look at it one way, it's another definition of being responsible for your actions. Politicians think they can take these actions and there will be no personal impact to it. Even if they ruin lives in the process.

I do wonder how this is going to continue in Germany? It has some of the most polarised groups in the EU, all held back by a stern rule and a lot of historical shame...

Bit like a powder keg if you ask me.

[Workingman]

I see nothing to define him as an extremist apart from an unconfirmed statement from a police chief. Unemployed and pissed off: yes. He will be one of many.

Definitely a powder keg waiting for a spark.

[Suff]

So now Merkel is off to Turkey to "plead" for a way out of her own idiocy. Now that the flood gates have been opened, that the immigrants are coming in their half millions and the idiots have finally realised that a policy, which was designed for the sole purpose of chastising the UK and Hungary, is fatally damaging their own countries and hardening the hearts of the most liberal of EU states; was total and complete idiocy devoid of any sanity at all.....

What has happened? Well now our great EU leader is following where Cameron has led. Aid to keep them in Turkey. Aid to the camps in Syria, aid everywhere but at home in Germany, keep them where they are.....

Nice, very Christian that. Set false hopes and expectations, get a million or more people traipsing thought the Balkans in winter and then try to stop the flood.

I grow tired of this policy of doing anything, no matter how insane, so long as it is not British led or British conceived. This attitude that it must be wrong because the British are doing it and the rest of the EU thinks it is a bad idea, is really abrading my restraint more than usual.

The fact that this blatant attack on British sovereignty, law and processes has massively backfired so badly just makes me even more irritated. And now that they have realised how incredibly stupid they have been, they are going to spend tens of billions of € to "fix it" and keep the immigrants on the borders of the EU instead of letting them in.

Greece asked for €7.2bn to fix a problem plus about €40bn of rescheduled debt in order to help them get their entire EU country back on it's feet.

Oh that was a total NoNo. What do we see instead? Merkel and the EU cause a humanitarian crisis by totally breaking international law and encouraging illegal immigrants to travel, illegally, through Europe, without documentation, to come to Germany who "would welcome them". Until they get as many in a day as they could support in a month and start to back away from this piece of total insanity called "policy".

I must admit, I wonder how the Greek on the street feels. Apparently it's more important to keep immigrants in Turkey and off the streets of Germany than it is to have a vibrant and healthy Greek economy with Greeks having a reasonable chance of work and standard of living.

I'm irritated with the way they shout the UK down as being unreasonable and "closet racist" followed by making a point of carrying out UK foreign policy as EU policy and ignoring the fact that the UK was there first, months or years before them.

So I wonder how the Greeks feel??? Pity they won't have another election for 5 years or so (maybe)....

[Workingman]

Merkel and the EU cause a humanitarian crisis by totally breaking international law and encouraging illegal immigrants to travel, illegally, through Europe, without documentation, to come to Germany...

That has been one of my themes for a long time, not only Germany and the EU, but the WHO and N. Africa and Turkey and I have wondered why it has not been challenged. Why has the UK not challenged it. No, that would make us the 'bad boy' again.

[cromwell]

One reason may be that the UN is fully supportive of all these migrants coming to Europe.

[Suff]

They see it as a "local" issue as the EU borders the problem.

Of course if the UK were to leave the EU, then we would not border the problem and it would cease to be "our problem".....

Another point to push in the campaign.

[Workingman]

Of course if the UK were to leave the EU, then we would not border the problem and it would cease to be "our problem".....

That is nonsense, and we all know it.

The 'Jungle' in Calais would not cease to exist. The economic migrants; Somalis, Eritreans, Sudanese and Ethiopians, would still be there trying to get to the UK. If the UK was not part of the EU why would it want to help us?

"They have got to Calais, Boulogne, Dunkirk and want to get to the UK... you deal with it - your problem."

[TheOstrich]

Indeed, the French have already threatened to relocate the "border post" from Calais to Dover.

In some ways, that might actually suit us, in that we would be able to police the border better if it were physically on our territory. Proper secure compounds for Dover and Cheriton. No vehicle leaves either without a full physical check. No person is allowed into this country without a rigorous examination. Any vehicle found to be containing migrants - arrest and imprison the driver, crush the lorry and load. Any illegals - straight back on the next boat or train with no recourse to legal aid.

If we have the will, we can do this. If we leave the EU, we may find that will.

[Workingman]

Sort of agree, Ossie, if we were not part of the EU our border would be under the channel.

Why would the EU then let us have our border guards on its lands? If 'illegals' got past the French guards, as they would, the next feasible checkpoints would be the Folkestone/Dover side of the Channel... unless they used other ports! Hmm.

So we round them up and put them in pens, and then what? Send them back at some time? And if the French, Belgians or Dutch refused to accept them then what...? They block their ports to our ferries?

Everything is easy when it is only in our dreams, reality is somewhat different!

[Suff]

That is nonsense, and we all know it.

I was talking about expectations. If we left the EU, the expectation that we should "take our share" would be untenable. Because we are in the EU, that expectation is there and remains to be met. It simply will not go away because we have no intention of fulfilling it. As each EU country is beaten down, as each dirty deal is done to give them what they want, the UK will, eventually, wind up standing alone. Yet Again. Against 27 EU members.

This is not a situation which we can ever relax from. As the EU has absolutely no intention of modifying these treaties and will keep on pushing for everyone to conform, then we have a stark choice. Conform or leave.. Conforming means, over time, taking hundreds of thousands of immigrants, legal or otherwise.

It's a fairly stark choice and one that must be put on the table during the referendum discussions. To do anything else invites future "discussions" on the fairness of the referendum and whether the question would have been answered differently.

For the sake of the UK (I don't care about the EU), the answer during the referendum must be the right one. Openly decided with all issues on the table so we can examine them and the truth of each matter. Whether we/I like the discussions and where they lead is irrelevant. The discussions must be clean and the information being discussed must be correct.

If that means we need to get the Lisbon Treaty out and dissect it chapter and article, then so be it.

Because when the decisions is made, Stay or Leave, we must be prepared to make the very best of it. If the decision is to stay it must be for the right reasons. Not fear, not ignorance either. If we vote to stay we must be willing to back that with full engagement and integration into the EU model.

My personal view of the outcome of that is both sarcastic and lacking credulity. But if we want to close this decision, for now, then we must approach it honestly and openly.

We must understand what the EU expects of us in our economy, our laws, our borders and our engagement. We must also understand what the people of the UK think their role in the EU should be. We should then work to try and match the two. If they come back as a total mismatch then the decisions is an easy one isn't it?

Not that I think it will go down that way, but that's how I view it.