Turkey shoots down Russian warplane.

[Workingman]

This was always on the cards once Russian planes started bombing runs.

Let us hope that cool heads prevail and that no more "accidents" happen.

[KateLMead]

Oh dear we are living on the knife edge.. The future looks bleak and frightening., As an ex military man you can probably be more accurate regarding your predictions.. I cannot believe how The military has adverts on TV encouraging young men to join the army, crazy when they have cut our forces to a point that leaves us vulnerable as a nation. And crazy that one of our lads is in Jail for shooting an injured Afghan soldier who was armed and had been fighting on their front line.

[Nanna]

. I thought that was a joke and it was a Christmas or Thanksgiving turkey that shot the plane down

[Workingman]

"Things" happened all the time when I was in the RAF, they were part of the game being played out during the Cold War. These are nothing new and never got reported. "RAF scrambles jets to intercept Russian bombers", as has been reported a few times in the past few weeks, were a regular occurrence. Phone calls will have been exchanged and everything would die down - till the next time.

And of course our bombers never went anywhere near Warsaw Pact airspace: did they?

With a bit of luck it will be seen as a one-off - SNAFU - and after a bit of tub thumping all will go quiet.

SNAFU = Situation normal, all f****d up.

[Suff]

I don't read it quite the same way WM. I have been waiting for this for quite a while and I think it's the French and US answer to the Paris attacks which has precipitated this action.

Turkey does not want Assad to stay in Syria, they want him brought down and they don't care what the consequences are in terms of IS or anyone else, they have a strong army and Air Force and will use it with troops on the ground if necessary to fend off IS once they have gained Syria. Turkey is running scared of the Kurds, their greatest fear (without a doubt), is that the Iraqi Kurds demand that Syrian Kurdistan becomes part of a greater Kurdistan and is separated from Syria in the Post war negotiations.

That would leave the Kurds under Fuad Massum, able to pressurise the US into pressurising the EU to make a separate Kurdistan a pre-requisite of Turkish accession into the EU.

Stopping Russia from keeping Assad in power and coming to a controlled an negotiated settlement, where the Kurdish lands in Syria are controlled by Kurds from Iraq and Turkey, must be their #1 priority.

Looked at in that light, anything Turkey can do to break the bond growing between France, the US and Russia is a priority.

Expect to see more Russian planes downed. However I don't believe that Turkey has thought this all the way through. In the end the US and France will back Russia, even if they differ over the Ukraine, to get the result they want. If Turkey continues to try and break that relationship, they can kiss their EU accession goodbye for another decade and they'll also be very tenuous when it comes to NATO....

Another day another navel gazing idiot does something stupid....

[medsec222]

What are David Cameron's motives for wanting to bomb in Syria. It appears they are to weaken ISIS but is the priority to topple Assad.

[Workingman]

I am not sure what Cameron wants in Syria, especially following today's news. I think that the more nations there are involved flying in the same airspace the more likely the chance of 'friendly fire' incidents.

I would prefer for the RAF to step up and take more of the load from the US in Iraq. That would free them up to work more closely with the French and Russians in Syria. Coordinating a few is far easier than coordinating the many.

[cromwell]

What are David Cameron's motives for wanting to bomb in Syria. It appears they are to weaken ISIS but is the priority to topple Assam.

I think a few people are thinking this!

When Turkey was asked to join in against IS the first thing they did was to bomb the Kurds!


eta - This casts a light on Turkey's attitude to IS.

http://www.infowars.com/turkey-threaten ... hoot-down/

[Workingman]

C'mon Crommers, you must be able to come up with better than to quote the arch conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones.

The man is a bible bashing nutjob and anti anything Western governments do.

Have any of his conspiracy theories proved true?

[Suff]

When Turkey was asked to join in against IS the first thing they did was to bomb the Kurds!

Indeed.

My knowledge of the Kurdish/Turkish situation is only partially from the press. The rest is direct family information.

This may spin out of control fairly quickly. Putin would, by US precedent, be justified in wiping out the Turkish ground air defence before a sortie flew close to the Turkish border...

Alternatively Hollande could fly joint sorties with the Russians. Leaving the Turks wondering whether they can shoot down French Jets and get into the EU at the same time......

Let's face it. Neither Putin nor Hollande are going to back down on this until IS are crushed. Turkey wants Assad gone and the Kurds under the heel. For them IS will be the best possible solution to that. Therefore they will not help get rid of them. Notably Turkey has refused aid to the Kurds, refused operational bases for the US to bomb IS and has done pretty much everything they can to derail western attacks on IS.

This will unravel further over the following months. In the end Turkey will be faced with a decision. If they want to stay in NATO and have a ghost of a chance at joining the EU, they are going to have to give up on getting rid of Assad by force and attacking the Kurds.

My prediction is that Turkey will wake up to that reality about 5 minutes after they have lost everything they wanted....

Why does Cameron want to be in on the act?

Because other nations are already wondering why the #3 military power in the world, already under threat from IS, would not join in with ridding the world of this scourge. It would be like the US just saying "no we're not taking any responsibility in the area". We created a lot of this mess with our crusade in Iraq. We have a responsibility and we are not stepping up to it.

This diminishes us in the eyes of the world. If we want to stay in the EU and just hide and do nothing then that is a good move. If we want to get out of the EU and back on the world stage, then we need to be a world power. World powers use their might to solve world crises. This is not a whim, it's a real world fact.