So we are now bombing Syria

[Suff]

Well I'm sure that someone has calculated how many USD it will cost to rebuild them with Western engineers and Western companies. They can even lend them the money and get it back when they sell the oil.

So far this has started sensibly. Expect the stupidity to creep in over the coming months.

[TheOstrich]

Yes, the illegal trade in oil neds to be quoshed, but bombing the refineries, both legal and illegal, will hit the civilian population in the area; dwindling fuel resources and dwindling employment. I believe that was the reason why the USA had not attacked them before, although the Russians have had no such scruples.

But it's necessary because the terrorists are making a huge amount of money out of this. If Putin is correct in pointing the finger at Turkey as facilitators of the trade, I hope it's another nail in Erdogan's coffin. Whether Mutti Merkel's listening, of course, is another matter ....

It's pretty obvious we will need boots of the ground to finish the terrorists off. I hope we make a proper job of it this time around.

[Suff]

It's pretty obvious we will need boots of the ground to finish the terrorists off.

Actually there are plenty enough boots on the ground as it is. All we need to do is help Assad finish off the moderates and IS in Syria will be gone in 6 months with bombing support.

Unfortunately the face loss of the US and the EU will be too great so our own will be killed eventually.

[Aggers]

I really don't know what to think about this matter.

We will just have to presume that those running our country know what they are doing,
and hope and pray that they are doing the right things. I would feel happier about it if
the decision to take military action against the so-called Islamic State had been made by
the whole of the EU.

[Suff]

I would feel happier about it if
the decision to take military action against the so-called Islamic State had been made by
the whole of the EU.

The whole of the EU only has two really viable military forces. Both are now engaged in the fight against IS. Notably those two forces also have a permanent seat on the UN security council.

Germany won't put a force into any theatre to fight (not Ugoslavia, not Afghanistan or Iraq). Most of the others won't either, Denmark, Sweden, Finland etc....

So if we want to make these decisions, it has to be us and nobody else. Apart from France the only way the rest of the EU sits on the world stage is via the EU and they will never make a decision to strike. Which makes an EU consensus virtually impossible.

[Workingman]

Germany, the largest economy and most populous EU member, has the fourth largest military force, behind the UK, France and Italy.

There was an excuse for this during the Cold War, and there still partly is, for historical reasons; same as Japan. However, since reunification, Germany has dragged its feet and should now be doing much more.

The force Germany has just voted to send to Syria is another start, same as its forces in Afghanistan were.

The problem, for me, is that calling anything an EU xyz brings into play countries within the EU who perceive that they have no threats against them. Take Portugal as an example. It must be fairly low on the terrorists' list as things stand. Bundle it in with an EU force simply because it is an EU member and it automatically becomes a legitimate target even though it might not be taking any physical part.

[Suff]

The problem, for me, is that calling anything an EU xyz brings into play countries within the EU who perceive that they have no threats against them. Take Portugal as an example. It must be fairly low on the terrorists' list as things stand. Bundle it in with an EU force simply because it is an EU member and it automatically becomes a legitimate target even though it might not be taking any physical part.

That's not a problem for me. If we're only calling it the "good times" union, then we can dispense with all the directives, get rid of the currency and close all the borders.

If, however, it is a Union with some semblance of Unity, then we need to work and act together. Attacking the EU should look like attacking the US or Russia. Following this logic, anyone can attack parts of the EU piecemeal and not expect to get a robust response.

It's just another reason I want out. Terrorists see the EU as a soft target. They do not see the UK as a soft target.

[Workingman]

Suff, when I said "for me" I meant it in the way you describe. Getting unity in the EU on this matter is going to be impossible and for many reasons, I only mentioned one; we are not in it together.

We are also seeing it with the illegals fiasco. Slovenia and Hungary are challenging quotes in the courts. The Danes, the people, do not want scrap their border control opt-outs, and on things go. There is even talk of kicking Greece out of Schengen.

Back to the bombing. The RAF has hit oilfields again, this time with Tornadoes and Typhoons. The Typhoon can carry Paveway missiles and free-fall bombs as well as offering air defence capabilities, so that is a good mix.

<rant> I wish British newspapers and websites would use the plural "Tornadoes" instead of the Americanised "Tornados".</rant>

[Suff]

I know the whole EU thing is a mess. They are talking about a 2 year Schengen shutdown now. If they do that they can just about forget restarting it, so many will want opt out's it won't be worth it...