Thin end of the wedge

[Suff]

As the EU gears up to replace Frontex with a fully empowered EU borders force.

Key points...

The EU has unveiled plans for a new border force with a 'right to intervene' without a country's consent

However I believe that this is Sky's colouring. I believe that the actual wording of the document will be "without the consent of the member state". Not Country as they don't really exist any more in the EU.

Mr Timmermans stressed that the force, which will replace the maligned Frontex agency, would be used only in 'exceptional situations' -

Exceptional today, challenging in a decade and just plain EU border force in 30 years....

Although the UK is not part of the passport-free Schengen zone where the guards will operate, it is being reported that Britain will contribute to the force.

Which means the force will have jurisdiction in the UK too...

Your EU working for itself, as always.

[Workingman]

Europe has a border hit squad called, Frontex, and it has failed; what better than to have another one, Frontex "heavy" to take its place? Madness!

Europe needs control of every centimetre of its external borders, starting at some quiet cove and working all the way round back to that same cove. Every guard along that border has to be working to the same rules and with the same authority. If one area becomes overwhelmed then guards from anywhere along the border should be drafted in to help.

Doing things piecemeal during exceptional times is never going to work, there needs to be full cooperation and coordination 24/7/365.

[Suff]

Doing things piecemeal during exceptional times is never going to work, there needs to be full cooperation and coordination 24/7/365.

Yep but they recognize that countries value their sovereignty in a narrow band and one of the items in that narrow band is border control.

So to avoid the 'k off factor they talk about Extraordinary. At least to start with. If you think about it this way, Frontex was probably set up to fail in the first place. Nothing like a nice tidy failure to drive unacceptable measures....

[Workingman]

Countries that signed Schengen already did away with the border control aspect of their sovereignty. Those with Schengen's external borders should, therefore, have no problem sharing control of that single border. Having an emergency hit squad is not the answer.

For those of us outside Schengen I see no problem whatsoever in sharing information. It is already done at the international level, to not do it with Schengen members is being bloody minded for the sake of it.

[Suff]

No this is not sharing information. This is actual boots on the ground running the border services.

That is not being bloody minded. That is being taken over by a central Europe.

In Extraordinary circumstances this force will take over the border and run it, with power above the government of the state which is failing.

[Workingman]

I was not talking about what will happen under the new border force, I have already said that it is not needed. I was talking about what should be happening now, today, this minute, under the present system.

Schengen members need to get together and get their house in order. They then need to get together with non-Schengen members and sort out the garden. The whole lot of them not getting together is petty bloody-mindedness of the first order and gives the Eurocrats just the sort of excuses they need to come up with this Border Force nonsense.

[Aggers]

How I wish we will get out of the EU.

Britain and its Commonwealth is quite capable of standing alone.

[TheOstrich]

One of the biggest problems with these European-run forces (well, any EU organisation actually) is that there has to be a huge question as to whether they would actually be "fit for purpose". My default stance is that they would not; I would much rather have these things "in house".

[Workingman]

I would much rather have these things "in house".

No doubt many would agree, but the problem is not "in-house" it is out there in the real world this very minute, and that is how it needs to be dealt with.

EU Border Force hit squads, or getting out of the EU will not fix the problem.

Schengen has structural flaws never envisage at its inception. It needs a massive overhaul, both for those within and those without. It is one of those bad "good ideas" that was never fully thought through.

[Suff]

It is one of those bad "good ideas" that was never fully thought through.

What you mean like the Maastricht treaty which created the Euro without the controls to make sure it could function as a valid currency in a 19 nation block? Or like the Lisbon Treaty which created border forces, embassies, ambassadors and an entire foreign service, without removing those functions from the EU states which it represents.

Full of quality { bad "good ideas" } the EU..... Just like the EU from the EEC via the same Maastricht treaty. Another {bad "good idea"}

What it comes down to is the inability of the EU to tell the truth because they know the people of the EU don't want to hear it and won't accept it.

So we are left with really bad ideas, badly implemented through a web of lies. Very EU.