And in the "In" corner...

[cromwell]

So far this week Conservative politicians have stepped forward to gravely wobble their jowls and talk of the foolhardiness of leaving the EU.

Who?

Sir John Major, Kenneth Baker and Michael Heseltine.

Good grief! Who dug this load of old fossils up? These are people whose day has passed twenty years since and more. Who are they going to dig up next? There must be someone of relevance in today's Tory party who wants to stay in the EU, but they are keeping pretty quiet as yet.

[TheOstrich]

I believe the Tory Party is supposed to be "neutral", meaning that neither the In nor the Out Campaigns can access Tory activist lists or use Tory Association funding in support of their respective views.

Another reason for keeping shtum is that pro-EU Tory activists are slightly concerned that their views may actually become a hurdle over them getting selected for seats in 2020.

Caroline Spelman, Stephen Dorrell, Peter Luff, Ncholas Soames and Malcolm Rifkind are all pro-EU, but the last 3 at least fall into your dinosaur category, Cromwell ....

[Workingman]

This far out it does not matter who stands up and says what, they are only politicians and only have 650 votes out of something like 40 million voters.

The public will decide whether the UK stays in or gets out and that will be based on who wins the mix of heart, head and propaganda - hard facts will be largely irrelevant.

[Suff]

Didn't I read that Cameron has stated he'll go with the referendum in 2016? I suspect that was part of the deal done to avoid the French elections.... They bow for him and he removes the FN rallying cry of "working with the UK". Because it will be a done deal by then.

All good ways of denying the voter a real choice or a chance to focus on something other than what the powers that be want us to focus on...

[Workingman]

I see that William Hague has waded in with claims that Brexit could lead to the break up of the UK. Cue others to denounce him, cue even more to support him....

"Oh no it couldn't".
"Oh yes it could".

The pantomime season is in full swing.

[cromwell]

TBH it looks like the UK is finished anyway. I can't see Labour making a comeback in Scotland anytime soon and nothing less than independence will satisfy the SNP.

[medsec222]

TBH it looks like the UK is finished anyway. I can't see Labour making a comeback in Scotland anytime soon and nothing less than independence will satisfy the SNP.

If that is the case they will have to negotiate to stay in without the UK if that is what the majority of Scots want.

[Workingman]

If the UK votes to leave the EU, a distinct possibility, then Sturgeon will demand a new un-Independence Referendum regardless of how the EU vote in Scotland pans out.

When she eventually wins one she will then apply for Scotland to join the EU, the € and Schengen.

[Suff]

That is the stated goal. If the UK votes to leave the SNP will hold a referendum on an independent Scotland on the basis that they can then join the EU. The SNP will spend 2 years spending as much money as they can to buy as many votes as they can at which point they will leave the UK, Join the EU and be treated as Lepers like Greece.

Not exactly the independence I wanted for Scotland.... But perhaps the wakeup call the Scots need in order to take their life and determination in their own hands...

[Workingman]

I admit to being confused.

I agree with Hague that an 'out" vote will break up the UK, but so what?

What then for an "Independent" Scotland if Sturgeon gets her new referendum? Scotland will not be "Independent" if it then joins the EU. What Sturgeon and the SNP seem to want is independence from England and the UK. That's fine, if they present it that way. However, to pretend that an independent Scotland is viable and then sell its new found independence in order to be subsumed into the EU is disingenuous in the extreme.

I am English, with Scottish roots, and I am getting to the point where I want Scotland to go its own way. If it works out, fine; if it fails; hard lines. It will not hurt England that much.