What's Germany up to?

[Aggers]

Why are they so keen to have us stay in the EU ?

They want to mind their own business and remember that they are lucky
to still be in existence after starting two world wars that cost millions and
millions of lives. There was good grounds for thinking that they should have
been wiped off the map of Europe when we won WW2. Do they want another
war? They might get their just deserts next time.

Grrrrrr.

[TheOstrich]

They are concerned that Brexit may ultimately lead to the break up of the EU (it won't). They are concerned that we are net contributors to EU funds so losing our money would hurt (I couldn't possibly comment on that because the issue is complicated). Well, that's the German politicians views, I suspect. I'm sure Suff will have better insight.

Yer average German citizen probably couldn't care less whether we stay or go. Possibly prefer us to go given we're the bolshy off-islanders.

I am less concerned about Merkel's meddling in our referendum than Obama's heralded statements. By what God given right should he or Kerry have any say in our affairs? How would the general population in the USA react if Cameron made a series of public interventions about curbing gun holding?

On a related EU-propaganda tack, there's a very run down part of north-west Birmingham that fringes either side of the Soho Road between the City Hospital and Cape Hill. There are signs up that they are "improving" the main drag, which means resurfacing it and putting in speed humps etc amongst other measures. There's a sign up on a lamp-post at the start of it all that the improvements are being funded by the EU Regeneration Programme or somesuch ....

I know it would be illegal under both British and EU law, but there are times you could wish that you had a can of spray-paint to hand ....

[Workingman]

Germany is well aware that the EU needs the UK, for all sorts of reasons.

I assume that their fear is that if the UK does leave then the whole project in its current form could implode. Other nations might be tempted to follow, quite a few of them. With that in mind it is in Germany's interests to keep the UK in the EU.

Cameron should have known this and he should have asked for many more and tougher reforms.

[Suff]

Suff spent Saturday night in the North of Scotland with #1 son & partner. He does have a strong view but is currently having an early tea in Aviemore watching the snow come and go.

I'll respond later. .

[Suff]

Germany and Merkel, specifically, are keen to keep the UK in the EU because they know the majority of the financial burden would fall on them.

Also France and Germany are aware that much of the influence that the EU has in the world would vanish if the UK left. The UK and the US emerged from WW2 as countries which did not concede homeland or authority to Germany or Japan. They came out the two strongest countries in the world and that has not changed that much over the decades since. Yes Russia propelled itself into the second slot, but it was always in isolation. Having to work with the world makes them less strong. Yes they are still a superpower but, oddly enough, so is the UK.

Remember when Cameron said NO to bombing Syria Obama backed away. Hollande asked to fill the slot and was quickly rebuffed. Simply put France doesn't have half the influence in world affairs as the UK does. After all France didn't have a real empire and the UK still has very strong ties with the commonwealth.

These are the realities of where we are but nobody wants to talk about that. Never mind the size of the UK economy they export hard goods to....

However there is another major part that is not in the discussion. Germany and France can no longer dictate terms and the Eastern states feel they were seduced into the EU with stories of unlimited economic growth only to find they have been pegged as the cheaper option for the EU workforce and everybody wants to keep them there. Since Lisbon, the other 26 have a very big say. So Cameron can't ask for what they won't accept, no matter how much Germany or France would wish to accept these terms.

The huge problem with the EU, as always, is that what is going on under the surface is 1,000 times larger than what is being admitted to on the surface. What is on the surface is bad enough, the rest of it is why I want out.

Discussing with #1 son today about what would happen with an OUT vote is that Scotland would secede.

My thoughts????

Twofer!!!!!

[Workingman]

I get the impression that many English could not care less what the Scots decide to do, but if it was to secede wouldn't Nicola be putting the Scottish people into a dark place?

It would be viewed sideways at the International level. It would have to apply to join the EU, with all that now entails - Schengen, Euro... It also does not have that much to offer the EU and with its strong nationalistic tendencies, as constantly displayed by the SNP, the EU might think it wise to keep it at arms length for a while.

It might sound good in the pub, but I would not bet on it happening.

[Suff]

Oh I don't want Scotland in the EU. If they refused Scotland I'd be fine with that.

However having lost the UK I do not think they would fsil to pick up Scotland.

Just let the UK out of the EU and we can go from there. .

[Aggers]

Another thing that puts me off the EU is the fact that, for years,
their auditors have refused to approve their accounts. That alone
should be sufficient to warrant us leaving.

[Suff]

15 years and counting I believe....

[Workingman]

Another EU myth. The accounts have been approved since 1994, but with criticism of errors in accounting. They should be no more than 2% but at times have reached 4.7%. However, the majority of these errors occur in national mismanagement in the accounting of EU funds, which is where over 80% of the EU's budget is spent. They are not created in Brussels.

Go check out the independent European Court of Auditors (ECA) for the real version of events and not the DM, Express, BBC or Telegraph.