What British Muslims Really Think

[Kaz]

That is really worrying

[cromwell]

It is the situation where I live Kaz. In other UK Muslim communities things might be different.

Also, the Pakistani community is very much a Patriarchy. The man's word is law and married women tend to be kept at home to have babies and do the housework. Any sort of integration would mean that this community becomes much less of a patriarchy, that the men surrender the power that they have over their women; and imo they will not do that willingly.

And all this is before we start talking about anti semitism.

[Suff]

It is the situation where I live Kaz. In other UK Muslim communities things might be different..

Not to my experience. It took 3 years for my cousin's wife to convince her parents that either they let her marry the man she wanted or she did not marry at all. Eventually they capitulated.

Had she had brothers I'm certain it would never have happened...

We're talking the very highest tier of society here with multiple degrees and masters. Not the working class....

A family which had taken Sanctuary in the UK for 10 years.

[Workingman]

"Hearing what British Muslims themselves think, rather than listening to those purporting to speak on their behalf, is critical if we are to prevent the establishment of a nation within our nation,"

Too late!

In West Yorkshire the Pakistanis / Bangladeshis have been here nearly sixty years and there isn't one sign of integration because they don't want to or can't integrate. Cousins marry cousins; in the home only Urdu is spoken.

These "nations within nations" already exist in many parts of the country and they were created by the laissez faire attitude of people like Phillips. They also brought in race and equality laws which were largely used against the British population. The integration of Moslems is now an impossible task, it probably always was, and when looking for answers Phillips should start with his shaving mirror.

[cromwell]

Well, I watched Trevor Phillips' program and it was as deeply bogus and dishonest as I thought it was going to be.

In some ways it reminded me of a toothpaste ad from the 1960's or 1970's. "Our scientific research shows that..."
The "scientific research" in question being asking people questions and hoping that they aren't lying to you. Scientific research like the opinion polls before the last election, which got it so wrong.

What Phillips was doing was admitting to past fault in order to try and justify the next halfwit PC idea. So he adapts a populist position, saying that Muslims don't integrate, that 99% of them would seize a scimitar and storm the local woman's institute shouting "Death to the Infidel" if they were offered a bacon sandwich, or whatever. But he's only doing it to try and get people onside for the next loony tunes idea; and right at the end of the program the loony idea duly popped up.

Active Integration. Phillips said that it should be possible to look at social housing and find out which were the most integrated and least integrated parts of the UK and using "Active Integration" to adjust things accordingly.

Which to me means that if you live in an all white community Trevor and his loony PC pals will be looking to alter that state of affairs if they can.

Active integration has been tried before, too. Years ago Bradford council tried "bussing" pupils from entirely Asian schools to white schools in the suburbs. It doesn't seem to have had any effect whatsoever. There was a case a few years ago where bussing asian pupils in Bristol ended in one white boy being assaulted with a hammer and receiving brain injuries. It is an old and a failed policy.

So Trevor Philips' brave new policy, "Scientifically tested Active Integration" (buy now while stocks last) is not new at all. It is a further pushing of a failed policy. Because for left wing PC idiots, their policies are NEVER wrong. It's just that their theory "wasn't implemented properly" or it just failed because there wasn't enough of it!

So here we come with Active Integration, which should more accurately be called Forced Integration. And at the end of the day, this will fail too. Because Muslims will still hold beliefs that set them apart from most of society. A Muslim should only marry a fellow Muslim; Jews are bad; alcohol is forbidden; pork is forbidden; the only language spoken in the home shall be Urdu; etc etc. Forced integration will change none of that.

I can't make my mind up whether Phillips is just stupid or downright bad. Because there is something about the set of his face that says he is not a very nice character.

Anyway, I fully expect old Trev to appear in twenty years time being pushed out in his wheelchair saying "I know I was wrong the first time; I admit I was wrong the second time; but THIS time I'm definitely right, and here's why you have to listen to me..." before coming out with another beauty.

[TheOstrich]

Because for left wing PC idiots, their policies are NEVER wrong. It's just that their theory "wasn't implemented properly" or it just failed because there wasn't enough of it!

..... or alternatively because the community resisted it. And in that case, you can be sure the finger will be pointed at the white community .....

Attitudes like that do nothing for my blood pressure.

[Workingman]

Excellent analysis, observation and post, Cromwell.

I nearly fell off my chair when he came up with his active integration emollient solution, which is similar to positive discrimination in its thinking.

Why don't these idiots recognise, once and for all, that if people will not be persuaded to think and act in certain ways then they cannot be forced to do so.

[Workingman]

Remember Germany?

After its open invitation to the illegal migrants it has now passed a law try to force them to integrate. Looking at it I wonder if our Trevor was an adviser.

Under the deal, new arrivals would be given subsidised courses to help them integrate into German life, with language courses and job training.

There are also plans to remove barriers to the labour market and create 100,000 low-paid jobs for asylum seekers.

One such scheme was launched this week by the University of Potsdam, just outside Berlin. It is holding courses helping refugees who are trained teachers make the transition to teaching in German schools.

In other proposals:

Any migrants who fail to take up the offer of help could lose benefits and residence permits

In an attempt to prevent migrant ghettos, anyone who moves away from where they have officially been resettled could be penalised

Counter-terrorism measures would allow police to deploy undercover agents and allow intelligence agencies to work more closely with their European, Nato and Israeli counterparts.

I bet low-paid and unemployed Germans are absolutely thrilled with this - As-salamu alaykum. Danke, folgen Sie mir bitte ... Guten morgen. Schnorrer! Gehen Sie dort und warten.

[Suff]

Excellent summary Cromwell.

Anyone spot the massive glaring flaw in the BBC article?

Turkey is not considered a "safe" country by the UN for the simple reason that they might send them back where they came from.

So, let me see, how does that work? If they don't take up the courses, they lose their residence permit. Then??? Well they can't send them away so what are they going to do with them? Ditto benefits? Stop giving them money and the "support groups" will have the European court on their ass as fast as you can say "failed policy"

Just because these people are fleeing a war does not mean they are good or even nice people. It does not mean they want to be part of the culture they are living in and for the 75% who are not fleeing war, they are even less likely to want to conform as they are just moving for a better life with more comfort.

Nobody has thought this though clearly except the Hungarians, slowly followed by the Poles. It's a powder keg waiting to happen. Belgium, France and the Netherlands had empires which allows immigrants to come from other countries. Apart from them the rest of the Schengen zone has no clue whatsoever of what they are letting themselves in for.

[Workingman]

Whatever the Germans do will be costly, doomed to failure, and discriminates against their own people. How on earth do they expect it to work?